Resale value of a Panerai vs Rolex

[tannee]

Hi All,

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and apologies in advance...

But how would a Panerai 000 compare to a Rolex DJII in about 10 years time?
Or how do Panerai's depreciate in general compare to Rolexs?

[scl6118]

I used to own a Panerai for two years and I sold it for more than I paid new. Panerai are insanely popular and have been for some time. I would guess they are comparable in resale, if not an edge to Panerai right now. But, in 10 years the Panerai craze may be over and the values could dive. Rolex, on the other hand, always seem to have excellent resale value.

[WJGESQ]

I must be missing something. I had never even heard of these watches (PAMs), until I came across this forum. Nothing against them, but I am not sure I understand the popularity. Rolex is Rolex and is an effective marketing machine. Omega has an incredible history that no one matches. What is the claim to fame for the PAMs?

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by WJGESQ

... What is the claim to fame for the PAMs?

Take your pick of Italian Navy divers, Yo Adrian!, Transporter movie franchise, Italian je ne sais quoi, etc. Every Paneristi has a different reason. I bought into the PAMs because I loved the strap change options. I sold all of them in favor of my Rolexes but I've been toying with the idea of picking up another one. Now back to Rollies!

[Punchthefatkid]

Originally Posted by WJGESQ

I must be missing something. I had never even heard of these watches (PAMs), until I came across this forum. Nothing against them, but I am not sure I understand the popularity. Rolex is Rolex and is an effective marketing machine. Omega has an incredible history that no one matches. What is the claim to fame for the PAMs?

Yes! you are missing something! - No disrespect, but a quick google search would give you all the Panerai history you would ever need.

They are steeped in history and have a very strong bond/connection with Rolex

[timmis1127]

Panerai resale sucks i bought a PAM 171 about 7 months ago for $8,700 brand new and the best offer i got was $5,250 so i sold it. I guess it depends on what kind of PAM is it also.

[Z-Sub]

If you take a Gold rolex and turned it around then you would lose even more.
abosolutely depends on which models you're comparing

[scl6118]

Huh. I had a PAM 114, which is the most basic of Panerai's and I made money on it from when I bought it new. The retail price of the Panerai was $3600 when I bought it and $5200 two years later, that's why I made money.

[tannee]

Interesting...

Im confused...because a used 114 nowadays goes for under 3k?

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by tannee

Interesting...

Im confused...because a used 114 nowadays goes for under 3k?

The 114's with the white dial just don't have the following as a black logo dial or 111/112.

[scl6118]

Originally Posted by tannee

Interesting...

Im confused...because a used 114 nowadays goes for under 3k?

Wow, I must have sold at just the right time I guess.

[HL65]

It depends on which models--steel sports watches--high resale. Certain Panerai do well--some don't. All depends on the models like anything else--demand is there for some and not for others.

[Singslinger]

I think the resale value of various models for both brands would vary widely.

[tannee]

hehe...

Ok cool thanks for the responses. To be more specific...

How do you think the PAM 000 and PAM 104 hold it's value...? Or do i have to post this specific question in the Panerai section hehe...

[Vipergq]

Originally Posted by tannee

hehe...

Ok cool thanks for the responses. To be more specific...

How do you think the PAM 000 and PAM 104 hold it's value...? Or do i have to post this specific question in the Panerai section hehe...

A Pam 000 will hold value better than any of the other PAMs out there. 104/164 is pretty good as well behind the 111/112

[promethus]

Both Brands have models that hold value well, profitable ones and those that simply can't move.

If I was to advise any of friends who have limited budget and getting their first Pam, I will always tell them to get a Pam 000.

[CPTL]

I understand PAMs are popular now, but how long as that been so? Whenever thinking about resale, I always am drawn to the fact that Rolex have been steadily holding or increasing in value for over 60 years--strong indication that they will continue to do so.

Not that I think resale potential is a reason to buy a watch, but when you're stumped between two models that you like, it could be the deciding vote.

[tannee]

Thank you everyone for your help.

I'm tossing up between a 000 and a 183. Approx the same price range..

Which one do you think would hold it's value more? I'm leaning towards the 000 as it seems to be more classic.

Just out of curiousity, how would one change the band on the 183?

Sorry...PAM newbie.

[karmatp]

It depends on what model it is for both brands. Some Pams have increased like crazy, other, not so much. My advice is to stay away from the more contemporary line and stick to the historic 44mm classics, they will hold their value well. The 40mm watches don't hold their value as well.

It is kinda like Rolex, the classic ss sport models are very desirable and maintain there value.

Good luck.

[sakuraba]

FWIW, a year ago I was dead set on buying a 111 for $4400, but got tripped up by a Sub which I promptly paid $3500 for. A similar 111 was offered by the same seller for $3800 just a month ago. I would guess my Sub is still worth $3500.

[Esexx]

Originally Posted by sakuraba

FWIW, a year ago I was dead set on buying a 111 for $4400, but got tripped up by a Sub which I promptly paid $3500 for. A similar 111 was offered by the same seller for $3800 just a month ago. I would guess my Sub is still worth $3500.

Good choice!

So, a Rolex is for passion and a Pam is for fashion?

[Speed]

Originally Posted by sakuraba

FWIW, a year ago I was dead set on buying a 111 for $4400, but got tripped up by a Sub which I promptly paid $3500 for. A similar 111 was offered by the same seller for $3800 just a month ago. I would guess my Sub is still worth $3500.

Interesting Jib...

I am eyeing Pam 111s. Need to try one on. Wondering how one will feel. Shreve had none and ignored me in store the other day. What evs.

I like the sandwich dial and second hand.

[mike408]

Panerais are nice watches. I have a 000G. I wasn't all that interested until I tried one on. The base panerais seem to fair pretty well 000,112. Mine is still worth what I paid.

A more comparable comparison would be 000 vs. Exp I. Both very classic watches that have received periodic upgrades.

I think both watches would fairly probably equally well.

A watch is not an investment. If it appreciates that is just a bonus.

[Naples09]

Originally Posted by Speed

Interesting Jib...

I am eyeing Pam 111s. Need to try one on. Wondering how one will feel. Shreve had none and ignored me in store the other day. What evs.

I like the sandwich dial and second hand.

Shreve got a new 111 in stock yesterday. George emailed me asking if I was interested in the watch. He offered a nice discount too. In the end I passed on buying the watch.

[sakuraba]

Originally Posted by Speed

Interesting Jib...

I am eyeing Pam 111s. Need to try one on. Wondering how one will feel. Shreve had none and ignored me in store the other day. What evs.

I like the sandwich dial and second hand.

Try Jacek, Bill. He currently has a 111 and a 113. Both are in great shape, complete, and the 113 was even serviced recently.

[silence]

I just got a PAM 279 with a titanium bracelet and I love it but I researched for a long time before I got it.

My anecdotal observations:

Less that 44mm-sized Panerais are not as resalable and therefore loose value more though I am not an expert on 40mm Panerai prices. Perhaps it's the trend towards large watches.

The 000s hold value well never less than $3500 and stable at +/-$4K but generally do not like watches with no date function (...except for my Patek Philippe 5034).

The Peneristis might have better insight.

Originally Posted by CPTL

I understand PAMs are popular now, but how long as that been so? Whenever thinking about resale, I always am drawn to the fact that Rolex have been steadily holding or increasing in value for over 60 years--strong indication that they will continue to do so.

Not that I think resale potential is a reason to buy a watch, but when you're stumped between two models that you like, it could be the deciding vote.

[theken]

Depends on the model. The PAM logos (000, 005) retain a very high resale value.
The DJ IIs can easily be purchased new with a 15% discount.

[Green Arrow]

The older Panerai "Pre-Vendome" such as the Slytech, or the "Fiddy" a variety of others are considered collector's watches, and have gone up in value for several years.

Certain watches such as the Pam 190 with a Jaeger LeCoultre movement have a cult following and have been going up in value.

I've owned the 183 Black Seal, the Pam 231 solid gold, a Pam 196 chrono, a Pam 88 GMT, a Pam 27c with sweep center hand, and a special collection 47 mm dive chrono called the 187.

I lost money on the 183.
I lost money on the 231.
I made money on the 27c
I lost money on the 196
I lost money on he 88
I made money on the 187.

By way of example I bought the gold 231 a 44 mm gold for the same price as I bought the Pam 187 47mm dive watch on cloth strap. $8,000 in each case. I got $7,500 back on the 231, and I sold the 187 for $10,000. ]

The 187 has recently sold as high as 16,000 and in some places has dropped back down to $11,000.
So it is very particular as to which of the Pams make money and that is determined by their popularity.

With Rolex, I've only made money on one. My 1982 GMT Master that I kept for 22 years and then traded in for twice what I bought it for.
On my Deepsea, my gold GMT Master II C, and virtually every other Rolex I've lost money. The way to make money on Rolex is to buy a hot new model from a friendly dealer when it first comes out and flip it for a profit, or hold it for a decade or two, and allow Rolex's relentless increases in pricing year after year, carry your used watch up with the prices. If you sell a Rolex in the one to two year hold period, unless you hit one hot model (currently the SS Daytona) you will lose money.

In the end it comes down to buying what you love. Go to Paneristi.com and spend some time there. "More than a watch" is a slogan, and the owners of Panerai watches are a very involved community, with lots of get togethers, and some extremely well thought of sales outlets, (here I'm thinking of Chad at the Beverly Hill Boutique).

It is a terrifically involving marque, like Fiat, or Maserati...very Italian considering they are Swiss watches. They have Manufacture movements in some watches, one has a Rolex movement, one a JLC, and many have variants on ETA or Valjoux movements.

I would put rock solid hardiness into the Rolex sport watch camp over my Panerais, but otherwise it is really an issue of what you like. Playing "appreciation lottery" isn't likely to work out either way, so you may as well wear what you enjoy.

[Faide]

I have a PAM0005, The first year it was made back in 2004, and i love it. It is so different to my Sub and my Moonwatch.

I still think my Sub is the most versatile, however, i love wearing either model.

I dont know about resale, ive never sold a watch. ;)

_Faide

[Deyn Man]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

In the end it comes down to buying what you love....

...I would put rock solid hardiness into the Rolex sport watch camp over my Panerais, but otherwise it is really an issue of what you like. Playing "appreciation lottery" isn't likely to work out either way, so you may as well wear what you enjoy.

amen!