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ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
28 March 2010, 09:59 PM
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#1 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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TIPs to Spot FAKE Ref 5512..5513 n 1680 SUBMARINER watch cases..
Err...here's the little project that Orchi
is doing that has kept Orchi quite busy of late... The ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases for Ref 5512...5513 n 1680... with ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS...circa from about MID 60s to 1980 or so... should be having EDZACHARY these...Original Rolex features:- (NOTE: These Rounded Crown Guards may seems to be similar... but they are actually NOT...) 1. Original Rolex Case Ref n Serial # fonts MUST NOT have... LONG n EQUAL length with the Middle stroke of..."E" The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be EQUAL in length...in "E" The Middle Stroke of "E" MUST be...SHORTER. along with the other fonts that MUST be consistent to ROLEX... original variations of case stamping fonts... 2. At the back of the ROUNDED CROWN GUARDS... there MUST be visible shape on this..."]" or "[" on the BASELINE of the lugs...to the watch case... seen from BEHIND the backcase... The BASELINE profile... with PERPENDICULAR angle of Flanges...(90 degree) MUST look like this..."[" or "]"... depending on either the watch crown guards are seen... from LEFT to RIGHT... IF this BASELINE profile is looking like the one found with Ref 1665 DRSD or SD... or with WIDER angle flanges slanting away from the PERPENDICULAR Baseline... ...*** WATCH OUT ***... the watch case is...FAKEEEEE. Here are the examples of ORIGINAL Rolex watch cases... for Ref 551X n 1680 Sub...as well as 1665 SD for comparisons... of the said BASELINE profile... which can be easily seen from behind... at the base of the Crown Guards... Ref 1665 DRSD or SD... with BASELINE profile(WIDER angle Flanges)... NOT having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges... at the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case.       Ref 1680 RED or White Sub... with BASELINE profile having PERPENDICULAR Flanges... like "[" or "]"... on the base of the Crown Guards...to the watch case... seen from behind the backcase...     Ref 5512...n 5513 Sub... From the Front...Topside or Sideways... these ROUNDED Crown Guards...may be looking slightly different... due to variation of production period or later Polishing works... BUT from BEHIND... the BASELINE MUST be the same...with Ref 1680... having the PERPENDICULAR Flanges..."[" or "]"... on the base of the Crown Guards... seen from behind the caseback... You won't see the REAL difference from any other angles... they may look similar...      BUT from behind the backcase...VOILA...!!!             Here are the pictures showing exactly that... ALL Original Rolex watch cases... should have the...SHORT Middle Stroke of "E"... It should NOT have the Middle Stroke in EQUAL length... NO Exception: The Middle Stroke MUST NOT be of EQUAL in length... thus the so called...LONG Middle Stroke "E".      THESE here are pictures showing the 5512...5513...1680... found in eBay...to have FAKEEEEEE...watch cases... being sold from Hong Kong mostly... The irony?...the relevant Seller(s) could also be members... n lurkers in VRF...? http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-Rolex-Subma...item3efdcde3be    http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...#ht_6323wt_958      http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...#ht_6323wt_958     http://shop.ebay.com.au/time_holder/..._sop=10&_rdc=1 The EXPERTS have already known about these facts...for years... BUT Orchi hopes that the Newcomers to TRF... could be well alerted...accordingly... IF Orchi had done this little project before September 2009... one of Orchi's buddies in here...would NOT have gotten burnt... ending up with a "1680" Submariner with FAKEEEE...watch case. Very Sorry for this LONG winded Post... IF this little project of Orchi offends the freaking Seller(s)... from Hong Kong or elsewhere...  So be it... NOTE: All pictures are except from VRF Market... with exception of those showing... the FAKEEE watch cases...from eBay. Best regards Orchi. |
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28 March 2010, 10:31 PM
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#2 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,380
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I would have to say that is a brilliant post.......
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28 March 2010, 10:39 PM
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#3 |
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: David Walz
Location: San Diego CA USA
Watch: my hand. :)
Posts: 9,156
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A lot to understand and take in, however it is important to learn this if we are going to buy vintage watches.
Let me understand what you are pointing out The E has a long stroke on the top and bottom and a short stroke in the middle if I am reading this correct? |
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28 March 2010, 11:23 PM
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#4 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Real Name: Richard
Location: England
Watch: 16610 & 16710
Posts: 899
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Many thanks for the post always good info to have.
__________________
 SS Submariner Date "V" SS GMT Master II Pepsi "D" |
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28 March 2010, 11:29 PM
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#5 |
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Vacated
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Marc
Location: Connecticut
Watch: PAM 111 'N'
Posts: 2,558
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Thanks, Orchi! It must've taken a while to get all the infopics compiled into this post....
Nice Sunday morning read!  !
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29 March 2010, 12:09 AM
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#6 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Err...looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind...
of this Original Ref 1665 SD...   Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind... of this Original Ref 5513 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards.  Here's looking at BASELINE profile of the Crown Guards...from behind... of this Original Ref 1680 SUB...with ROUNDED Crown Guards...   On the BASELINE of the Crown Guards of 551X n 1680 SUB watch cases... You will find "[" n "]"...from behind... The FAKEEEE watch cases...do NOT have this "[" shape... at the BASELINE profile of its Crown Guards...    FAKEEE "1680" Watch case...  Best regards Orchi. |
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29 March 2010, 12:11 AM
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#7 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
ALL the Strokes in "E"...MUST NOT be exactly EQUAL in length... The Middle Stroke of "E"...has to be SHORTER...
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29 March 2010, 12:26 AM
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#8 |
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: David Walz
Location: San Diego CA USA
Watch: my hand. :)
Posts: 9,156
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Post number six is really clear, thanks. You rock!
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29 March 2010, 12:43 AM
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#9 |
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2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Richard
Location: Macungie, PA
Watch: 5513 Sub, LV Sub
Posts: 14,497
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Orchi, as usual, I always learn something from your posts. Thank you very much for increasing my knowledge of Rolex watches.
__________________
 "Few things in life give man as great a pleasure as wearing a Rolex!" TRF's "AFTER DARK" Bar & NightClub Patron
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29 March 2010, 12:46 AM
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#10 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,170
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Question
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29 March 2010, 12:54 AM
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#11 |
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2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,309
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Good post orchi. And not to confuse the crown guards with the highly-counterfeited vintage GMT/Explorer II's with Submariners, when viewing the back of the GMT Explorer II crown guards, the cut-out is "V" shaped like on the photos of Orchi's SeaDweller, and not cut at 90 degree angles.
The first attached is a pic of a genuine, vintage GMT depicting the back of the crown guards. The photo-shopped white lines highlight the "V" shape of the crown guards. The second pic is also of a genuine GMT.
__________________
Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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29 March 2010, 01:00 AM
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#12 |
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2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Sink-O!
Location: a praire in AZ
Watch: ROLEX-less atm...
Posts: 14,021
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"illuminating" info Orchi !
__________________
 *Positive Waves Baby* Lug Hole Loyalist / Chamfer Line Inspector INFORTHE WIN SUB-MAH-REEEN-ER ~ !
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29 March 2010, 05:31 AM
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#13 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Real Name: Alex
Location: Switzerland
Watch: SD/PAM74/ExII/SRSD
Posts: 393
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thanks! great info
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The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore they attempt the impossible, and achieve it, generation after generation. Pearl.S.Buck |
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29 March 2010, 06:23 AM
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#14 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
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Excellent info Orchi. I thank you. Another masterful tutorial for my "Orchi file."
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with. |
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29 March 2010, 01:03 PM
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#15 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 37
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That is great information and learning opportunity. Thanks for sharing, Orchi! Will you be considering a next segment for the next generation Submariners (16800's)? Cheers
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29 March 2010, 02:12 PM
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#16 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Paul
Location: New Haven, CT
Watch: 116610 Sub-C
Posts: 6,552
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Thanks! Orchi
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30 March 2010, 02:43 AM
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#17 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Real Name: MDangerSteel
Location: Canada
Watch: Vintage Rolex
Posts: 2,301
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Excellent.Thank you, Orchi.
__________________
 Card Carrying Member of the Global Association of Retro-Grouch-CurmudgeonsProbability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival---Capt. Rage Don't believe anything in aviation, 'till V1---Mitch Danger Steel |
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31 March 2010, 03:40 AM
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#18 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Real Name: Sergio
Location: Sunrise, FL
Watch: Rolex SD
Posts: 92
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Orchi thank you, I learned something today. Now I am happy
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26 April 2010, 12:14 PM
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#19 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Real Name: HaNgat
Location: Jakarta
Watch: Sports Rolex
Posts: 648
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I was searching for 1680 info as I plan to acquire one and come acroos this great info. Thanks Orchi!
__________________
Cartier Tank / Suunto Stinger / 16014 / 16610LV / PAM 233 / 116520 / 14060M / 16710 / Omega Constellation |
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27 April 2010, 12:26 AM
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#20 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
The lug holes are too far inside...thus NOT correct. 
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6 August 2011, 12:03 PM
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#21 |
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Real Name: Ralph Valdes
Location: coral gables, fl
Watch: 18k YachtmasterMOP
Posts: 31
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Very helpful. Thanks.
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6 August 2011, 02:09 PM
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#22 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
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Holy watch spring Batman That took a lot of reading
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with. |
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19 November 2011, 08:07 AM
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Watch: Submariner 116610
Posts: 64
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Interesting, mainly because I own one and i love it
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1 December 2011, 03:04 PM
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#24 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Watch: 1675
Posts: 171
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Any chance the broken Photobucket photo links can be fixed on this tread?
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8 December 2011, 10:09 PM
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#25 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Real Name: Ian
Location: Spain
Watch: Ω & ♛
Posts: 1,321
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Quote:
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Rolex GMT, Zenith Chronomaster Sport, Zenith Pilot type 20 40mm, IWC mkXVI, Tudor BB58, Glashütte Original SeaQ 39. 5 |
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2 July 2012, 12:08 PM
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#26 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brooklyn ny
Watch: Rolex sub
Posts: 504
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Wow very good info. Thanku
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17 August 2012, 04:47 PM
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#27 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 50
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17 August 2012, 05:02 PM
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#28 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Matthew
Location: Miami/NY
Watch: the shoes.
Posts: 3,482
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Thanks good read!
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18 August 2012, 12:34 AM
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#29 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Real Name: Mr. H
Location: Dallas
Watch: them for me!
Posts: 7,180
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Quote:
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10 September 2012, 04:10 AM
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#30 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Real Name: Paradis
Location: Sweden
Watch: Sub.1680/ Datejust
Posts: 885
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Really good post, also work that you have done. You scared me, though I know that my 1680 is genuine, so I had to compare .... And all ended bra.Tack Orchi.
Paradis
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