What happened to the "fun" of it all????

[Clay]

Let's be honest....No one wants to purchase something today only to find out that it's worth much less then they paid tomorrow, or that they paid way to much for that item.....

But I am getting so tired of posts about "Value"......

What's it "worth".....What WILL it be worth....What's a good "Investment"....

How about buying a nice watch because you love it....???

Enjoy owning and wearing it???

Enjoy talking about it and learning and sharing knowledge about it....???

Does a dollar value have to be put on EVERYTHING????

I don't know...maybe I'm just getting old and cranky....

But what happened to just having fun???

[EvEr34]

What else is there to talk about? I mean how many "what are you wearing today" threads is acceptable??? 365?? Sooner rather than later it's probably going to become: what are you wearing this AM. How many times can one post pics of his/her collection? Discussion subjects have probably ALL been been addressed at one time or another.

It's a forum......It's made to gather info and exchange info. I personally don't click on titles that don't interest me.

Overpaying for a watch pretty much sucks. It's just like anything else. Some have been around the block many times over and have great information to share regarding "value". I tend to enjoy things a lot less if I feel i got screwed over.

Hhmmm..are you getting old and cranky.....probably not.

[Submarino]

Clayton, I completely agree with you and I feel the exact same way.

I am 38 years old and I have been collecting for 20 years now. I have never cared about the resale value, or what the watch could be worth in 10 years or any other provisions of that nature.

My motto is "like a watch, can afford it, buy it".

[MonBK]

I take it this title was of interest?

[Dan Pierce]

Been doing that since day one.
dP

[Submarino]

Originally Posted by EvEr34

What else is there to talk about? I mean how many "what are you wearing today" is acceptable??? How many times can one post pics of his/her collection?

It's a forum......It's made to gather info and exchange info. I personally don't click on titles that don't interest me.

Mike, I think there are plenty of topics we still could discuss here on TRF, nevertheless, everytime I post valid questions that could enhance everyone's knowledge about our Rolexes I get '0' answers.

For example, here's a question that no one ever provided answers to it when I posted it.

Why on the old GMTs the dial says Oyster Perpetual instead of Oyster Perpetual Date? The model is fitted with a Date window!

[Frogman4me]

I agree with you Clay. Although value is important it is not everything. If I buy a watch and I end up selling it for less than I paid I just look at it as a price for owning and enjoying the watch for short period. Like a light borrowing fee as the loss is always small compared to the total price so it does not bother me.

My advice for those who only care about value is to do tons of research both on the watch and the market trend over the past decade. Contact and check all the sellers and forums. Buy from a reputable seller with provenance on the watch and your loss should be minimal if any. Just remember though as vintage watches hold great value we are not for certain what the future holds.

[JimSnyder]

I agree

[EvEr34]

Originally Posted by Submarino

Mike, I think there are plenty of topics we still could discuss here on TRF, nevertheless, everytime I post valid questions that could enhance everyone's knowledge about our Rolexes I get '0' answers.

For example, here's a question that no one ever provided answers to it when I posted it.

Why on the old GMTs the dial says Oyster Perpetual instead of Oyster Perpetual Date? The model is fitted with a Date window!

I agree. But when one inquires about the value of a piece and has to why it's worth X he's also gathering knowledge that he/she might at some point share with someone else. You gotta start somewhere.

[Racer X]

I agree also. As I've said, collecting is not about investment for me. However, I think the issue of value is worthy of discussion and, as you pointed out, no one wants to pay $40K today for something that will be worth $20K tomorrow. Also, I couldn't help but address the "values can only go up" viewpoint, which I believe to be flawed. Cheers!

[mike]

I hear you Clay.

In large measure I think the crazy pricing we saw a couple years ago spurred this on. Pricing was out of controll (especially on pieces of marginal quality) so much so it was hard to lose money in the short term.

I think this brought the "speculator" into the arena and pushed the true collector to the sidelines.

Many now look to purchase with profit as the only motivation with the history and heritage of what makes vintage a far distant secondary consideration.

We see this not only in some new people comming into the arena, but it the crazy pricing some levy on parts as well.

Heck perhaps the most notable clue we find is in the subtilities we find in various dials etc... where some try to create a market based on a flaw or some other minor variation in design or font.

Certainly these variations allow the collector to in some measure chart the heritage of a given reference, but to "create" something that just isn't there is based on speculation and greed. I think the same can be said about hyping a specific reference over another because it had a "short run".

It seems with the influx of new blood some of the fun has gone.

Look at the modern arena for another example. How many threads/posts have we seen touting the 16710 this or that or the 16610 as discontinued and now poised to be a "collector's item"?

While valuations will always play a role in collectibility, somewhere along the line we've pushed the love of the brand and it's history/heritage to the side.

Bit sad.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by mike

I hear you Clay.

In large measure I think the crazy pricing we saw a couple years ago spurred this on. Pricing was out of controll (especially on pieces of marginal quality) so much so it was hard to lose money in the short term.

I think this brought the "speculator" into the arena and pushed the true collector to the sidelines.

Many now look to purchase with profit as the only motivation with the history and heritage of what makes vintage a far distant secondary consideration.

We see this not only in some new people comming into the arena, but it the crazy pricing some levy on parts as well.

Heck perhaps the most notable clue we find is in the subtilities we find in various dials etc... where some try to create a market based on a flaw or some other minor variation in design or font.

Certainly these variations allow the collector to in some measure chart the heritage of a given reference, but to "create" something that just isn't there is based on speculation and greed. I think the same can be said about hyping a specific reference over another because it had a "short run".

It seems with the influx of new blood some of the fun has gone.

Look at the modern arena for another example. How many threads/posts have we seen touting the 16710 this or that or the 16610 as discontinued and now poised to be a "collector's item"?

While valuations will always play a role in collectibility, somewhere along the line we've pushed the love of the brand and it's history/heritage to the side.

Bit sad.

Have to agree Mike a 100% and yes its sad that many of todays Rolex owners all they think about is profit.And agree that many today are not interested in the history of the RWC.Well its just 10 years since the Internet started and afraid today this is the source of the many Rolex myths.Like the infamous stick or error dial,plus all this nonsense with a simple case approximation year date.And agree it was just great to learn the history of the Rolex watch company.But lately on TRF its all will this or that model hold its value or go up in value.Will this watch because its got this case letter or X or Y movement or now its discontinued go up in value.In my day we just bought a Rolex knowing it was one of the best watches on the planet.And just a little bit of care would last a life time just wish those days would come back and not all these $$$$$$$$£££££££££££ posts.

[Clay]

Mike....I hear you as well and couldn't agree more......

All this Pre-comex, maxi dial, short font, chocolate covered, baloney.....

I can't stand it......

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Submarino

Mike, I think there are plenty of topics we still could discuss here on TRF, nevertheless, everytime I post valid questions that could enhance everyone's knowledge about our Rolexes I get '0' answers.

For example, here's a question that no one ever provided answers to it when I posted it.

Why on the old GMTs the dial says Oyster Perpetual instead of Oyster Perpetual Date? The model is fitted with a Date window!

I have to agree with you Mr. H...I have posted several valid questions with maybe one or two replies, not sure anyone really cares or wants to bother. But, if someone posts some off the wall topic it gets at least a hundred replies. I recently posted a question regarding the open 6s and 9s and why the 6 on the 26th is the only closed one on the silver date wheel and now the question is dead in the water.

[George Ab]

Old and cranky?....... NOT. Young at heart and thoughtful........ is the way I'm leaning.

I have an affinity for watches, many watches not just Rolex watches. It continues to be a fun and a satisfying hobby.

That said, financially I mind the store and do the best with I can with what I have. Most people who have earned wealth have worked hard and prudently made financial moves. For me it is never about the money, but rather doing the best you can with what you have in any given situation which includes the assets I put into watches. Put another way, value can be based on greed or it can be based on personal responsibility. It is attitude based and if you are having FUN, then you are headed in the right direction.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by Nicko

I recently posted a question regarding the open 6s and 9s and why the 6 on the 26th is the only closed one on the silver date wheel and now the question is dead in the water.

I thought the issue was resolved in that thread. You even said "thanks for the answer." Anyway, the open 6s issue was discussed in another thread recently. You might do a search for it if you want to read further comments on it.

[JBat]

Originally Posted by Clay

Let's be honest....No one wants to purchase something today only to find out that it's worth much less then they paid tomorrow, or that they paid way to much for that item.....

But I am getting so tired of posts about "Value"......

What's it "worth".....What WILL it be worth....What's a good "Investment"....

How about buying a nice watch because you love it....???

Enjoy owning and wearing it???

Enjoy talking about it and learning and sharing knowledge about it....???

Does a dollar value have to be put on EVERYTHING????

I don't know...maybe I'm just getting old and cranky....

But what happened to just having fun???

Agree 100%

[JBat]

Originally Posted by mike

I hear you Clay.

In large measure I think the crazy pricing we saw a couple years ago spurred this on. Pricing was out of controll (especially on pieces of marginal quality) so much so it was hard to lose money in the short term.

I think this brought the "speculator" into the arena and pushed the true collector to the sidelines.

Many now look to purchase with profit as the only motivation with the history and heritage of what makes vintage a far distant secondary consideration.

We see this not only in some new people comming into the arena, but it the crazy pricing some levy on parts as well.

Heck perhaps the most notable clue we find is in the subtilities we find in various dials etc... where some try to create a market based on a flaw or some other minor variation in design or font.

Certainly these variations allow the collector to in some measure chart the heritage of a given reference, but to "create" something that just isn't there is based on speculation and greed. I think the same can be said about hyping a specific reference over another because it had a "short run".

It seems with the influx of new blood some of the fun has gone.

Look at the modern arena for another example. How many threads/posts have we seen touting the 16710 this or that or the 16610 as discontinued and now poised to be a "collector's item"?

While valuations will always play a role in collectibility, somewhere along the line we've pushed the love of the brand and it's history/heritage to the side.

Bit sad.

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree Mike a 100% and yes its sad that many of todays Rolex owners all they think about is profit.And agree that many today are not interested in the history of the RWC.Well its just 10 years since the Internet started and afraid today this is the source of the many Rolex myths.Like the infamous stick or error dial,plus all this nonsense with a simple case approximation year date.And agree it was just great to learn the history of the Rolex watch company.But lately on TRF its all will this or that model hold its value or go up in value.Will this watch because its got this case letter or X or Y movement or now its discontinued go up in value.In my day we just bought a Rolex knowing it was one of the best watches on the planet.And just a little bit of care would last a life time just wish those days would come back and not all these $$$$$$$$£££££££££££ posts.

Well, said, Peter and Mike. Hell, one of my main draws to the Rolex brand is the history of the company as well as horology in general. I have a couple of Rolex books and really enjoyed poring over them to learn the fascinating history. Knowing these things only enhances the ownership experience, just like knowing baseball's history enhances the game. I don't have any vintage watches, but I think this carries over to modern models, as well.

The most annoying threads to me are the ones where someone blurts out a question about the value of a watch in their first post.

[STEELINOX]

I agree, the fun has been sucked right out !

Remember my query about the "Kanger, 3186 GMT stick dial" that sold a month or so ago; its amazing that people actually will pay big monies - every day of the week - for this anomolus dial...

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Racer X

I thought the issue was resolved in that thread. You even said "thanks for the answer." Anyway, the open 6s issue was discussed in another thread recently. You might do a search for it if you want to read further comments on it.

It was only an example and it wasn't answered. read it again http://rolexforums.com/showthread.ph...00#post2244000 I did do a search as well. Thanks for taking my comments out of context, much appreciated. Now back to the question at hand, nice try. If you're looking for a fight you won't get one here.

[jamesbondOO7]

Originally Posted by Submarino

My motto is "like a watch, can afford it, buy it".

Exactly. Same for everything.

[pz93c]

Well, I'll tell you.

When I bought my watch it was a good deal. Probably better then I knew at the time. Knowing I have equity is a priority and a good feeling.

That said, if there was a piece I was jonesing over, that never came up for sale. It shows up but is over priced. I might buy it, if it was in my range. I'd have to really want it, though.

Double standards? Sure, but I don't care.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Submarino

Mike, I think there are plenty of topics we still could discuss here on TRF, nevertheless, everytime I post valid questions that could enhance everyone's knowledge about our Rolexes I get '0' answers.

For example, here's a question that no one ever provided answers to it when I posted it.

Why on the old GMTs the dial says Oyster Perpetual instead of Oyster Perpetual Date? The model is fitted with a Date window!

I didn't see the thread-my fault. Most days when I sign on it's to wade through a bunch of reported posts.

I don't know the question has ever been properly addressed, but here's some thoughts based on what I seen and the direction Rolex has taken over the years.

Indeed early 1675s advertised "OYSTER PERPETUAL" only on the dial as an indication the watch was selfwinding and waterproof (as of course others).

In the 80s some feel (I among them) Rolex made the decision to move more toward the "Luxury" end of the spectrum. We see the first vestiges of this with the move to gloss dials with white gold surrounds circa the 83-85 timeframe depending on reference. Interestingly some 16750s came with dials marked "OYSTER PERPETUAL" only then switched to "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE" we see today.

The reference 16760 also fell into this camp with early examples bearing OP only (some feel the 83 release year) and then movong to OPD for the rest of the run.

If history tells us anything it's that Rolex is indeed the master of marketing. Witness early GMTs bearing the legend "OFFICALLY CERTIFIED CHRONOMETER" which was later changed to "SUPERLATIVE OCC".

Why?--most feel simply marketing. The COSC test was the same, but usage of the word Superlative was an eye catcher.

It must work as there have been threads about this very thing with strong feelings by some they would not have a watch without the SCOC legend on the dial reguardless of the fact most any good movement can be brought to way inside COSC specs--if it needs it at all and not to mention the myraid of posts where "My watch is out spec" we see all the time.

My theroy is that usage of the word "DATE" beginning with the move to luxury is simply Rolex putting more on the dial and moving away from the tool watch concept in an effort to appeal to a wide marketing base.

[Yazo]

Originally Posted by EvEr34

What else is there to talk about? I mean how many "what are you wearing today" threads is acceptable??? 365?? Sooner rather than later it's probably going to become: what are you wearing this AM. How many times can one post pics of his/her collection? Discussion subjects have probably ALL been been addressed at one time or another.

It's a forum......It's made to gather info and exchange info. I personally don't click on titles that don't interest me.

Overpaying for a watch pretty much sucks. It's just like anything else. Some have been around the block many times over and have great information to share regarding "value". I tend to enjoy things a lot less if I feel i got screwed over.

Hhmmm..are you getting old and cranky.....probably not.

Gotta agree with mike on this.... As IMHO that's what the internet and forums in particular are all about.

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by Nicko

I have to agree with you Mr. H...I have posted several valid questions with maybe one or two replies, not sure anyone really cares or wants to bother. But, if someone posts some off the wall topic it gets at least a hundred replies. I recently posted a question regarding the open 6s and 9s and why the 6 on the 26th is the only closed one on the silver date wheel and now the question is dead in the water.

Is it possible no one had an answer to your question?
dP

[slevin kelevra]

I totally agree with Clay. I'm a one Rolex guy and have really been bitten by the watch (mainly Rolex) bug. I never ever think about how much my beloved watch is worth in resale. Simply because I would never sell it. I have had ups and downs during my year of Rolex ownership but I just know no other brand could give me the same satisfaction.

When someone asks what watch is the best one to buy in terms of resale it makes my blood boil! Why buy the watch if you inted on selling it again??? Yes some people buy a watch then decide it's not for them and that's fine but its the ones who want watch A over watch B simply because it will be worth more when they come to sell it. I really really can't understand that.

[Boopie]

I am not a vintage watch collector, but my Rolex is almost 10 years old. While I have no intention of selling it, I think that one of the many good things about Rolex watches is that, relatively speaking, they hold their value well. We spent about $5k cash for my watch in early 2001. While I do not know exactly what my watch is worth, I would be pretty upset it if had almost zero resale value, like my husband's TAG automatic.

Just like some people do not care about resale for jewelry or cars, some don't for watches. Some people walk away from perfectly good houses because the market value sank (see today's Wall St. Journal).

[HL65]

Originally Posted by mike

I hear you Clay.

In large measure I think the crazy pricing we saw a couple years ago spurred this on. Pricing was out of controll (especially on pieces of marginal quality) so much so it was hard to lose money in the short term.

I think this brought the "speculator" into the arena and pushed the true collector to the sidelines.

Many now look to purchase with profit as the only motivation with the history and heritage of what makes vintage a far distant secondary consideration.

We see this not only in some new people comming into the arena, but it the crazy pricing some levy on parts as well.

Heck perhaps the most notable clue we find is in the subtilities we find in various dials etc... where some try to create a market based on a flaw or some other minor variation in design or font.

Certainly these variations allow the collector to in some measure chart the heritage of a given reference, but to "create" something that just isn't there is based on speculation and greed. I think the same can be said about hyping a specific reference over another because it had a "short run".

It seems with the influx of new blood some of the fun has gone.

Look at the modern arena for another example. How many threads/posts have we seen touting the 16710 this or that or the 16610 as discontinued and now poised to be a "collector's item"?

While valuations will always play a role in collectibility, somewhere along the line we've pushed the love of the brand and it's history/heritage to the side.

Bit sad.

Thank you Mike!!! Amen to that!!! Well said my friend!!

[spuds]

I hear what you're saying gent's but to be fair to the poster's in question (new) Rolex's represent a far more significant investment than they used to IMPO.


(ie: they've increased in MRRP by a far greater percentage than the average wage over any given timespan).

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Is it possible no one had an answer to your question?
dP

Could be Dan, but with all the knowledge here, that's doubtful..