Which one is rugged and reliable ?

[Nick Hacko]

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[Andad]

Bugger, haven't got the best one.

[leopardprey]

Nick,

Thanks for your opinions. Was the reason my first Rolex I purchashed was a Sub No Date 14060M !

Now, instead of just limiting it to Rolex, how about other brands as well.

Any other mechanical watches out there even better, IYHO, than the Rolex Sub?

[diablojota]

Great post, Nick. I would almost think the Explorer 1 would fall into that category.

[C.J.]

I have the same question as Chad. What other brands, Nick? And, what are your thoughts on the Omega SMP?

[mlb]

Makes sense, Nick...Less is more

[mrbieler]

Going non-Rolex, the Seiko 6309 is pretty darn rugged, reliable, and dependable.

It's a 17j 21600bph tank. Solid screw down crown. Large readable dial in a very ergonomic cushion case. 150m water resistance.

It's less common cousin the 6306 is 21j and hackable.

Either one will get you down the river and back.

[amanda]

Ha funny one, the 14060 was the watch I want to buy when I achieve my weight loss goal!

Nick - I feel as tho my PAM 005 scratches easily, in your experience with Panerai would you say that they are more susceptible to scuffing and marking than other brands??? Or is it merely the size of the case that attracts more marks due to it hitting more things - its out there compared too many other brands.

[ashu2289]

Thts true. Less complicated goes for more reliability.
But if I go for less complicated watch that makes my brain less reliable as I seriously have taste for complicated mechanical watches.

[G.J]

[Nick Hacko]

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[amanda]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

Hi Amanda -
congratulation on being brave enough to set such admirable goal! Good luck!
Don't worry too much about scratches - they are unavoidable and
not related to watch size. Certainly some wearers are more careful than others but good news is that your PAM can be easily re-polished, same as steel Rolex.

Thanks Nick, thats what everyone keeps telling me too I just have issues with it.. probably as I feel I do care for it and yet see evidence on the watch that I'm not

[Nick Hacko]

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[padi56]

Well got to agree with Nick on the non date Subs,even vintage models like the 5513 perfect now even for daily wear.And totally agree about the non chronometer ratings its just now a marketing ploy.Those 15XX series movement seem to go on for ever,but IMO equal in ruggedness and durability.Some of the Seiko range of divers are just as tough,and seem to go on with very little service.Not so accurate in timekeeping but IMHO just as all round tough.Now Myself believe one of the next sort after watches from the 90s will be the 14060 with the tritium dial.Could be the next vintage must have,now out of production.If you can get hold of one mint with box papers etc,I believe that prices will rise in a few years time,could be the next investment piece.Now I don't normally recommend anyone owning watches just as pure investment.

[Nick Hacko]

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[Lol-x]

The Explorer would I guess fall into the same rugged category but it is 36mm.
Does the date feature really make it a less rugged watch than one without the date?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

Hi mod: here is one for your eyes only :



As you've said, not sure about investment potential (yet) but certianly
worth hanging onto.

Very good example Nick and worth hanging on to,its a true Rolex tool watch icon.And IMO thats what a Rolex is all about in the sports line,but today money and bling is todays market.And now again IMHO Rolex is moving too far away from its heritage roots,especially with some of the latest bling and so called sports abominations again IMO.But these will still sell such is the power of the Rolex name,but bet old Hans is turning in his grave.

[Nick Hacko]

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[JJ Irani]

This has been a well executed and superbly planned out thread.

Thanks, Nick and also the others for their input!!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

Having option to wind watch manually is another level of enjoyment - am I right Amanda?

Re. Seiko: Great movement ... but life is too short for Seiko. I can not mentally allow myself to part with hard earned cash on something with low resale value and zero snob value. Seiko owners are the most contented people on earth - I call them watch hippies.

While Nick I would agree with Seiko regarding there resale value especially in the bread and butter lines etc.And they don't have like you say the snob value (if you are into that sort of thing) as some of the Swiss high end brands.But there is a misunderstanding in some, that people assume Seiko equals affordable/cheap. Most are undoubtedly referring to Seiko's normally found on the street in Europe and the Americas , and they are definitely a good, fantastic, value for the money.



But you can also get vintage and new high end Seiko's, which, until the advent of the Internet, were relatively unknown outside of Japan. And a few other far east Asian countries (Taiwan, HK, Singapore ETC.) "King Seiko","Grand Seiko", and "Seiko Credor", you will find in these watches that, movement and case finish wise, easily compete with the best of mass produced swiss watches, i.e. Omega, Rolex, etc. As for style… well, that is in the eye of the beholder. At best they can be considered very conservative. But it really depends which movements,and watches you are comparing to. What this all boils down to is: Seiko makes some truly outstanding products, and some mediocre ones, just like many other companies. If you want to buy one, you should, by all means do it. Because their bang-for-the-pound-factor is bloody amazing, at both ends of the spectrum.


Check out the regulator adjuster on this one! And check the shock protection on the non-balance jewels. That's real quality!and there own movement test, to a much higher spec than the Swiss COSC






Although not a quartz watch fan the Japanese now produce
some of the finest in this world today IMO.
Selected Grand Seiko quartz model

Note 1: Seiko re-issued a limited edition of the "Astron" in 2000-1 that used a special version of the 9F movement that was rated to ± 2 seconds per year.
Note 2: The 9F movement is reportedly designed to run fifty years before it needs servicing.
Note 3: Other Grand Seiko quartz models use the 8J movement. Even less is know about this movement.
Source of some information: Japanese retail sites

[AJC]

Nick,

Go the 14060m,





Aaron

[leopardprey]

I do like how the 14060M has a thinner case than the Sub Date. It also ia little smaller in diameter. Was thinking about selling mine, but think I will keep it!

[Solar]

Nick, thanks for starting this thread. I really enjoy the technical aspects brought out in these comparisons, especially by someone like yourself who has worked on watches. I've only seen the inside of a Rolex once, my current two never having been opened since I bought them.

I hope you'll continue to post threads on this line, ie functionality, movement strengths and weaknesses, etc.


Best,

Chris

[Nick Hacko]

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[mrbieler]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

I can not mentally allow myself to part with hard earned cash on something with low resale value and zero snob value.

My apologies for adding Seiko. I didn't see snob value in your list of admirable features. I thought we were talking about quality.

[nko51]

What about the Seadweller! It's built like a tank!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

hi Padi -
I do agree with all except for above (quoted).


The non-balance jewels you are referring to -circled in blue- are actually not
shock protection jewels (or better known as incabloc).
They are just ordinarily jewels but with addition of jewel cap, fastened with
spring. So when you assemble the movement you can access bearing jewels
to apply oil. I personally don't like capped jewels for two reason: there is
no engineering advantage vs. open bearing and it is impossible
to visually inspect oil and jewel without removing the jewel cap first.

Normal non-cap jewel is visible right between green and blue circle (pallets bridge). Rolex movement cal 3XXX is fitted with incabloc shock proof device on balance wheel (green, shock proof) and escape wheel. Other wheels are much more robust and would not break easily, therefore no need for shock proofing.

Here is a photo from my collection showing removed cap jewell
- the dot in the middle is oil

I stand corrected but that was the quote from the Seiko site. Rolex uses for their shock protection the KIF system,but they are all similar to the standard incabloc.Now quite a few of our members think that there are vast amounts of oil used to lubricate a watch.Could you just clarifier the real small amount of oil thats used to correctly lubricate say a Cal 3135 I like your posts very informative and to the point.

[Solar]

How does KIF differ from Incabloc, or are they the same with different trade names?

Chris

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by Solar

How does KIF differ from Incabloc, or are they the same with different trade names?
Chris

Good question, I wondered about that too

[Nick Hacko]

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