random numbers fair ?

[DG123]

I don't think the new random numbers method is fair and reasonable to the consumer, especially concerning preowned watches. For example, if we look ahead 10 years that means a prospective preowned watch buyer will have no idea whether the watch he is looking at was produced in 2011 or 2020. I understand Rolex is a business and has a right to protect its retailers and resellers, but "hiding" date of manufacture is not in keeping with the integrity of the brand name Rolex. Anybody agree, disagree?
disclaimer: I admit I may be misunderstanding something here and that there may be other methods, such as dial style/color which will be useful in determining a given watch's approximate date of manufacture.

[Mosco]

Warranty card has a date on it.

[Manofsteelpt]

I agree, that's a great point.

[Tools]

Rolex serial charts are tools to research an unknown watch...

Too many new buyers are using them to try to date a new watch........ an absolutely wrong use for such charts..

The new watch becomes a data point to expand the chart which is only a sample of a few hundred watches at most..

[smallcandle]

I actually happen to agree with you, DG123. When I go to purchase a pre-owned watch I like to know how old the piece is and if it will be due for a service. Most people, however, don't seem to care as much...

[MortgageGuy]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Warranty card has a date on it.

That is a great point however it is not an uncommon thing to have "OPEN" Papers on a preowned watch... If this is the caser who is to say the seller would not date the card recently to make the watch appear newer than it actuall is

Just playing devil's advocate here I guess it will just be more important than ever to buy the seller and not the watch

[usbzoso]

i imagine in the future watches with all the proper paper work which can be used to date the watch will be worth more than those without

[smallcandle]

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

That is a great point however it is not an uncommon thing to have "OPEN" Papers on a preowned watch... If this is the caser who is to say the seller would not date the card recently to make the watch appear newer than it actuall is
:

Great point!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by DG123

I don't think the new random numbers method is fair and reasonable to the consumer, especially concerning preowned watches. For example, if we look ahead 10 years that means a prospective preowned watch buyer will have no idea whether the watch he is looking at was produced in 2011 or 2020. I understand Rolex is a business and has a right to protect its retailers and resellers, but "hiding" date of manufacture is not in keeping with the integrity of the brand name Rolex. Anybody agree, disagree?
disclaimer: I admit I may be misunderstanding something here and that there may be other methods, such as dial style/color which will be useful in determining a given watch's approximate date of manufacture.

Well if its anything like the movement changes over the past 20 odd years don't think it will matter.Take the cal 3135 not changed since 1988/9 except now some have the in-house escapement parts.And if you buy any watch second hand without any service history it would be wise to get it serviced then you will have Rolex service papers.And in general Rolex watches know matter what the case letter if serviced will in most cases out last there owners.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well if its anything like the movement changes over the past 20 odd years don't think it will matter.Take the cal 3135 not changed since 1988/9 except now some have the in-house escapement parts.And if you buy any watch second hand without any service history it would be wise to get it serviced then you will have Rolex service papers.And in general Rolex watches know matter what the case letter if serviced will in most cases out last there owners.

Most Rolex owners don't know anything about their watch except that it's a "V series", or a "G series" or whatever .... as if that means something and one or the other gives them "bragging rights"...

I think that it's taken over the top spot from "Should I take my Hologram Sticker off"...

[SoftwareDrone]

I agree with the original poster. If I were in the market for a preowned Sub, I would shy away from an 'X' series (for example), but would be looking at something like a 'V', simply because I wouldn't want to buy a 10+ year old watch. The random numbers take that away. Who wouldn't be suprised if, in a few years, Rolex came out with a "service" where you would have to pay a fee to get them to tell you what year a "random" watch was manufactured...

[train-time]

IMO, it's a welcome change. No other watch brand that I can think of, or have had any experience with, has such a level of interest in a "serial" number. A couple watches that I own have the serial number engraved or etched on the caseback, a relatively inexpensive and interchangeable part!

[Abid]

Originally Posted by SoftwareDrone

I agree with the original poster. If I were in the market for a preowned Sub, I would shy away from an 'X' series (for example), but would be looking at something like a 'V', simply because I wouldn't want to buy a 10+ year old watch. The random numbers take that away. Who wouldn't be suprised if, in a few years, Rolex came out with a "service" where you would have to pay a fee to get them to tell you what year a "random" watch was manufactured...

LOL! yup charging to figure out what age your watch is....definitely something Rolex would do.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Tools

Most Rolex owners don't know anything about their watch except that it's a "V series", or a "G series" or whatever .... as if that means something and one or the other gives them "bragging rights"...

I think that it's taken over the top spot from "Should I take my Hologram Sticker off"...

Please Larry don't ever mention the word hologram, had almost 10 years of past hologram questions on this, and a another unmentionable forum.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SoftwareDrone

I agree with the original poster. If I were in the market for a preowned Sub, I would shy away from an 'X' series (for example), but would be looking at something like a 'V', simply because I wouldn't want to buy a 10+ year old watch. The random numbers take that away. Who wouldn't be suprised if, in a few years, Rolex came out with a "service" where you would have to pay a fee to get them to tell you what year a "random" watch was manufactured...

A ten or 20 year old Rolex will run as good as supposed new watch as long as its been serviced correctly. And any watch without history just like a car you get it serviced first then you get Rolex service papers with all the information about the watch its that simple.Movements like the cal 3135 have remained unchanged since 1988/9 except that now some have the in-house escapement parts.

[Paracentesis]

Originally Posted by Tools

Most Rolex owners don't know anything about their watch except that it's a "V series", or a "G series" or whatever .... as if that means something and one or the other gives them "bragging rights"...

As any fule kno, the rarest and best 16610 is a P series w/ flat 4 bezel, flat S dial, lugholes, and SEL bracelet. ;-)

[Omega 1120]

I agree with the OP that Rolex's random serial numbers are not fair to the consumer.

Their philosophy behind it is "all Rolex's are perfect". They want everybody to believe that all Rolex's are the same. That's why they don't issue COSC certificates. Heaven forbid a consumer bought 2 Rolex's with COSC's and found out that one had a better rate than the other. Now they pull this serial number bit. I mean come on....

I mean, diamonds are one thing......no one cares how old they are. Gold jewelry is another example. The gold "stays" does not breakdown into another element for a very, very long time. Luxury watches are a whole other ballgame.

If a person wants to save his/her hard earned money and go to a jewelry store and buy a brand new solid gold Rolex for $ 27,000, then he/she has a right to know if the watch has been sitting in the jewelry store for 3 years (lubrication breakdown or not). I mean if the watch has been sitting for 3 years is it still new? How about 4 years or 5? That really is not the principle of the matter. When you pay an exorbitant amount of money for something, you should get what you pay for.

ANY swiss watch that costs $ 27,000 dollars should not have to conceal it's age.

Rolex knows their screwing their customers....they just don't care. They know that with the majority of Rolex buyers, the age of the watch is not going to be a major issue.

I e-mailed Omega twice this year with my watches serial numbers. Both times they responded within 4 days with the year my watch was manufactured and the model number it originally was when it left the factory.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rolex. It was my first luxury watch.

But Rolex customer service is going backwards.

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by Omega 1120

If a person wants to save his/her hard earned money and go to a jewelry store and buy a brand new solid gold Rolex for $ 27,000, then he/she has a right to know if the watch has been sitting in the jewelry store for 3 years (lubrication breakdown or not). I mean if the watch has been sitting for 3 years is it still new? How about 4 years or 5?

Why can't said jewelry store check the watch against its inventory records to tell a customer when it came in?

[TopNotchChach]

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Omega 1120

. . . ANY swiss watch that costs $ 27,000 dollars should not have to conceal it's age.

Rolex knows their screwing their customers....they just don't care. They know that with the majority of Rolex buyers, the age of the watch is not going to be a major issue.

I e-mailed Omega twice this year with my watches serial numbers. Both times they responded within 4 days with the year my watch was manufactured and the model number it originally was when it left the factory.

Don't get me wrong, I like Rolex. It was my first luxury watch.

But Rolex customer service is going backwards.

What makes you think that Rolex will not tell you the approximate production date when you give them the new random serial number. ????

They (Rolex USA) have always told me that information any time I ask for information on any of my watches.. They don't give much else, but they do that..

[springbar]

Originally Posted by DG123

For example, if we look ahead 10 years that means a prospective preowned watch buyer will have no idea whether the watch he is looking at was produced in 2011 or 2020.

The buyer of a used watch (I think the term "preowned" is silly) should be looking at the actual condition of the watch, not the serial number.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by springbar

The buyer of a used watch (I think the term "preowned" is silly) should be looking at the actual condition of the watch, not the serial number.

Exactly... A 5 year old watch in mint condition is almost always a better buy than a 2 year old watch in fair condition..........

[horseco]

I think anything that works by use of mechanical, moving, wearable parts, that cost over $500, should have its production date identifiable by a stamp some where. I don't care if its a watch, car, bicycle or a lawnmower... its nonsense to say just because it has never been used its new... we all know machines start to age & lubricants begin to break down the minute after they are made...

[springbar]

Originally Posted by horseco

I think anything that works by use of mechanical, moving, wearable parts, that cost over $500, should have its production date identifiable by a stamp some where. I don't care if its a watch, car, bicycle or a lawnmower... its nonsense to say just because it has never been used its new... we all know machines start to age & lubricants begin to break down the minute after they are made...

The metal parts don't "age" on any kind of human time scale. They can wear out, but in the case of a wristwatch direct examination is a much, much better measure of wear than a serial number.

As for lubricants: what does the serial number engraved on the case tell you about the age of the oil inside?

[horseco]

Originally Posted by springbar

The metal parts don't "age" on any kind of human time scale. They can wear out, but in the case of a wristwatch direct examination is a much, much better measure of wear than a serial number.

As for lubricants: what does the serial number engraved on the case tell you about the age of the oil inside?

It gives a rough idea of when the watch was produced, & how old the lubricants & seals are... random serial # wont even give an approximate age... but I must agree with you, physical inspection is a good indicator of over all condition... its just that a lot can be masked by a skilled jeweler & a polishing wheel...

[springbar]

Originally Posted by horseco

It gives a rough idea of when the watch was produced, & how old the lubricants & seals are... random serial # wont even give an approximate age...

The lubricant and seals are not permanent. They are replaced during overhauls, which occur at an interval (if we follow Rolex's advice) not much longer than the accuracy of our serial-number-based estimated production dates.

The serial number doesn't tell you anything about the condition (much less the age) of the lubricant or the waterproofness of the watch.

Originally Posted by horseco

but I must agree with you, physical inspection is a good indicator of over all condition... its just that a lot can be masked by a skilled jeweler & a polishing wheel...

What could be masked by the jeweler that would be unmasked by knowing when the watch was made? The production date is not an indication of the watch's condition.

My interest in knowing when the watch was made comes from historical curiosity.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Originally Posted by usbzoso

i imagine in the future watches with all the proper paper work which can be used to date the watch will be worth more than those without

Yes, this will be the truth, along with knowing who the seller is. To me, the paper will be muy importante if I live 30 more years and finally find my grail WG and wanna buy it in my 29th year. That is, if they quit making them in 10 years and I can find one 29 years from now. I would want to know when it was produced, am I right, or am I wrong here ?? Someone wanna chirp in, please...

[xjeeunitx]

I think Rolex is smart for their actions with the new system.

[Megalobyte]

Of course Panerai is another brand where serial number and thus age play a role, and are a known quantity. And, all else being equal, with Panerai, a current M series, is a little more valuable than an older L or K, just as a V series DeepSea is always a little more than an M. Mostly because when people spend a boatload of cash on something they hope to last a lifetime, they want to make sure it's newer and thus less chance of there being some sort of damage, ageing or unseemly story behind it, right or wrong.

Take cars for example. If you are paying $50,000 for a new car, you'd like to know it's a current production vehicle, wouldn't you? You could in theory have 2 of the same model car, one made in 2009, that has 10 miles on it, sitting at a dealership for 2 years, and one made last week, with the same 10 miles, I know which one I'd want. Sure, the 2 year old one that was sitting at the dealer is probably just fine, but I'd rather KNOW it is, knowing it's new and fresh, not something that was sitting around, expsosed to the elements, careless prospective buyers (like for example non watch people trying to turn the bezel on a Sub sitting in an AD's case the wrong direction) and some slight ageing. But that's just me...

The fact that a watch shop can take a used, beat up Rolex and make it look virtually BNIB makes it even more important for watches to be dated than cars.

I understand Rolex's desire to do it, one, this helps dealers sell watches that have been sitting around for a while, but, it also will affect the secondary market. It's no secret Rolex seems to prefer people to buy new from ADs, at pretty much full list, by adding an element of uncertainty about age, some people will decide to pay more and buy from an AD, as opposed to a forum or similar secondary market venue, thinking that at least a watch from an AD should be newer than one that has changed hands a few times, and ended up in the secondary market. It's a smart move for Rolex, except for the watch enthusiasts it'll turn off.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Of course Panerai is another brand where serial number and thus age play a role, and are a known quantity. And, all else being equal, with Panerai, a current M series, is a little more valuable than an older L or K, just as a V series DeepSea is always a little more than an M. Mostly because when people spend a boatload of cash on something they hope to last a lifetime, they want to make sure it's newer and thus less chance of there being some sort of damage, ageing or unseemly story behind it, right or wrong.

Take cars for example. If you are paying $50,000 for a new car, you'd like to know it's a current production vehicle, wouldn't you? You could in theory have 2 of the same model car, one made in 2009, that has 10 miles on it, sitting at a dealership for 2 years, and one made last week, with the same 10 miles, I know which one I'd want. Sure, the 2 year old one that was sitting at the dealer is probably just fine, but I'd rather KNOW it is, knowing it's new and fresh, not something that was sitting around, expsosed to the elements, careless prospective buyers (like for example non watch people trying to turn the bezel on a Sub sitting in an AD's case the wrong direction) and some slight ageing. But that's just me...

The fact that a watch shop can take a used, beat up Rolex and make it look virtually BNIB makes it even more important for watches to be dated than cars.

I understand Rolex's desire to do it, one, this helps dealers sell watches that have been sitting around for a while, but, it also will affect the secondary market. It's no secret Rolex seems to prefer people to buy new from ADs, at pretty much full list, by adding an element of uncertainty about age, some people will decide to pay more and buy from an AD, as opposed to a forum or similar secondary market venue, thinking that at least a watch from an AD should be newer than one that has changed hands a few times, and ended up in the secondary market. It's a smart move for Rolex, except for the watch enthusiasts it'll turn off.

You guys still don't get if all you ever tell from these Internet codes was a approximation when a case was, or not stamped.Now the movement in the case well how old that is only Rolex knows.Now any movement in any case could be older or newer made, movement could be a year plus old before its cased.With around now 400000 - 500000 cal 3135 made yearly they are not all made the same day, week, or month.Will a watch with a newer or older case stamp perform any different to any of the millions upon millions of Rolex watches in this world if they have been RSC serviced short answer no.And no matter if any watch that was bought new from a AD,even if it had been twiddled by everyone in this world today it would still get the same 2 year warranty.