Submariner 3-6-9 (T) Dial is it genuine ?

[ro-lex]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROLEX-3-6-9-BU...item20bb113aee


Any thoughts on this one ? thanks

[gtb5]

Guess you have to trust what seller states.

[oinkitt]

Originally Posted by ro-lex

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROLEX-3-6-9-BU...item20bb113aee


Any thoughts on this one ? thanks

NO GO!!!

Standard service dial with T added

VERY DODGY SELLER - BEWARE!!!!!!!!!

[HL65]

X2!! Not a chance!!

[PhilM]

That is shocking....

[Grumpy Badger]

Slightly off topic but I can't quite understand faking something like this...

I get that the average Rolex buyer would be hard pushed to tell a real watch from a good fake so it might just work selling current model watches on "the bay"...

But, surely, anyone to whom a solitary dial for a rare military watch would appeal, would be a collector and either knowlagable enough to spot it themselves or at least knowlagable enough to check somewhere like here...?

[HL65]

Mark--See them from time to time. You would be surprised!! Lots of unscrupulous people out there looking to bait someone! You are right though--when it comes to the milsubs and rare pieces--they usually get sniffed out quickly on one or multiple forums.

[Grumpy Badger]

Thanks Ken, just goes to show...

I'd have thought an original 3-6-9 dial would have been valuable enough in it's own right and, by adding the circle-T they've actually rendered it worthless through their greed.

[Scunner]

I wonder what makes it a 'Ministry of Defence' label (more like standard Avery address label)

Sold for £5k - Ouch.

[Grumpy Badger]

Originally Posted by Scunner

I wonder what makes it a 'Ministry of Defence' label (more like standard Avery address label)

Sold for £5k - Ouch.

Everyone knows that MoD labels are DPM...!

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Badger

Thanks Ken, just goes to show...

I'd have thought an original 3-6-9 dial would have been valuable enough in it's own right and, by adding the circle-T they've actually rendered it worthless through their greed.

These have come up before from this seller...As stated above service dials with added T. Someone paid 5 large for it...crazy IMHO!

[Grumpy Badger]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

These have come up before from this seller...As stated above service dials with added T. Someone paid 5 large for it...crazy IMHO!

If the buyer sees this thread he's not gonna be a happy bunny!

What would the unaltered 3-6-9 have been worth in is own right?

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Badger

If the buyer sees this thread he's not gonna be a happy bunny!

What would the unaltered 3-6-9 have been worth in is own right?

I am not sure...

[union special]

I saw previous threads on these exact dials from this batch on other forums and several people stated that the T could have been added to regular non military contract service dials by the MOD or the MOD contractor for replacements on issued watches...Another forum also claimed to have confirmed the contract number on the box. The seller states a full refund 28 days after reciept if Rolex finds that it is not genuine.

Any thoughts?

[JEC]

Can I name the coronet style? We have the frog's foot and the Bart Simpson - I nominated this one be called the Arsenio Hall.

[rolexpawn]

What a pile of .

[93 Turbo]

it is being sold with a full money back refund if, within 28 days of receipt it is found to be not genuine by Rolex of Switzerland and returned in the same condition along with written evidence from them to this effect.

Above quoted from the sellers site, Good luck getting this done within 28 days from day of sale, to day of return to the seller.

[HL65]

Now that is funny Jules!! Lol

[arttay10]

I'm not knowledgable enough to cast a judgement - but how on earth does someone come accross a box full of dials like that in the first place??

[rolexpawn]

Originally Posted by arttay10

I'm not knowledgable enough to cast a judgement - but how on earth does someone come accross a box full of dials like that in the first place??

From China.

[Grumpy Badger]

Originally Posted by arttay10

I'm not knowledgable enough to cast a judgement - but how on earth does someone come accross a box full of dials like that in the first place??

...shoves them under his jumper while clearing out the Quarter Masters store cupboard...?

[arttay10]

[CaveDiver]

Since some are aluding to this as a fake or from china, please give details as why this is a fake 'burford' dial? As for being a worthless service dial; Why would this dial not have value in the right watch, would it not make the right watch hole? What is the difference between this dial and the one found on Mike Wood’s grail here:
http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

For those the are not fimilar with the 'burford' see the above link for Mike Woods’ explanation of the dial:
“As the real danger of radium became apparent, the watches were recalled to the Ministry of Defence in the early 1960's, where the watchmakers at the observatory at Herstmonceaux Castle in southern England fitted dials with tritium luminous markers, tritium hands, and bezel inserts with tritium markers dots. The dials were printed for the Ministry of Defence with a very clear and legible 3-6-9 lay-out, with a very tall Rolex coronet, and the T-circle signifying tritium luminous compound. The dials are also referred to as the "Burford dials".”

[HL65]

Don't trust that seller...Look at his feedback. He sells speakers, radios and phonographs not rare Burford dials or service dials belonging to MOD. As Oinkitt said above- dodgy seller.

**PS- I do agree with the content of your post...not that I am an expert on this topic because I know little to nothing about this other than I've read in the past from Jed.

[93 Turbo]

No expert on the dials, but the wording on the box is too civilian for items that have been through a Military logistics stream. There is no NATO stock code that I recognise (or one I am familiar with), which for this vintage it should have.

The fact that there are two different styles of dial mixed in the same MOD box with no visible external reference that can bee seen is out of place to me.

These are my personal observations from what the seller has presented. If I were he or her, I would be providing every bit of evidence and provenance that would leave no doubt in a prospective buyers mind before they part with their hard earned $.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by 93 Turbo

No expert on the dials, but the wording on the box is too civilian for items that have been through a Military logistics stream. There is no NATO stock code that I recognise (or one I am familiar with), which for this vintage it should have.

The fact that there are two different styles of dial mixed in the same MOD box with no visible external reference that can bee seen is out of place to me.
.

Do you think the marking of 923-7697 is not correct for indicating Royal Navy? What kind of markings would you expect to see?
thanks

[93 Turbo]

Generally a two digit designator one designates US and the other UK. Can't remember which is designated to which country. E.g. 33-923-7697 or 923-7697-33. This would/should be included regardless of which Service Arm the item is issued to.

Again just my opinion.

[jedly1]

I'm on holiday but seeing as I've had both an email and a text now ....

The seller I wouldn't trust to do business with ( based on personal experience) ... BUT

The dial shown is a 100% correct burford dial.

It is not a STD service dial with t added - that was done others he had from the same box

The value is about right

The box and stock numbers seem to be correct.


Right, back to the sangria and pool :-)

[jedly1]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759.../dennis+yates-

The BBC link makes interesting reading

[IanT]

Originally Posted by jedly1

The dial shown is a 100% correct burford dial.

Totally agree Jed, unfortunately it seems to be a case of the blind leading the blind here :-(

I wouldn't do any business with the seller, but all of the dials and other parts which he managed to acquire last year from a retired watchmaker are authentic, and appear to be what was left of the Royal Observatory's spares holdings for the UK military issued cal. 1030 Submariners (i.e. the small batch of 1954 "H.S.10" 6538s and the slightly later A/6538s).

The dial which has just been sold on ebay is an absolutely correct 1960s MOD redial, done in the UK by the Burford Dial Co. using the original dial plates. It is these "Burford" dials which are generally found on A/6538s, the 1954 UK military issued 6538s, and on the few very rare UK mil issued 5512s which have come to light, having been fitted by the Royal Observatory at Herstmonceux Castle during the early/mid 1960s when watches were returned for service, in line with the MOD's policy to replace radium with tritium.