Rolex Submariner Red 1680

[Matt_w]

Morning everyone,

As advised by 'dddrees' over in the newbie section I'm posting the same question here about my Submariner Red 1680, so apologies to all those that have already read the post, but I will keep this one shorter.

My two brothers and I acquired a Rolex Submariner Red 1680 from the early 70's after my father passed away in 2005. The watch was passed onto him by his father (my grandfather) and I know my grandfather purchased it new.

I'm looking to buy a house after I recently had a baby girl and the sale of the watch is needed for a deposit. I've contacted a few dealers in London and throughout the UK, but offers have varied from around £1,000 up to £6,000. This is obviously a massive difference and with watches selling on the same companies websites for between £7,500-£14,000, I'm not sure I am getting a fair offer.

The watch, as already stated is a Rolex Submariner Red 1680 with date. It’s a superlative chronometer and was originally certified to ‘660ft = 200m’. Unfortunately both the box and papers are not present with the watch, although we have had it confirmed by Rolex that it is a genuine Rolex. The watch is in great working order with original dial in black and also original unidirectional rotating bezel. The glass is plexi glass and the case and bracelet are stainless steel, but I'm afraid the bracelet is not the original.

Pics are attached (excuse the poor iPhone pics, I will try to get some proper pictures once my brother returns my camera). Any advice on what a fair valuation of the watch would be will be much appreciated, plus a good place to actually sell it. Any further questions photos etc, please just ask.

Matt

[fespo276]

I am not a vintage expert at all, but from what I do know, if everything is original, that watch is in great condition.

[Mark020]

Seems to be a MK IV. Without B+P going rate in the private market is GBP 5-7k in this condition I guess.

While the dial seems to be good the case seems to be overpolished. Hands look te be replaced as well (and both don't help you value wise). What is the number on the bracelet (9315 or 93150)? A GBP 1k bid is (an attempt to) (a) steal. How did you describe the watch to them? Did you mention the red? If so: please enlighten us with the name(s) of those crooks.

[drainaps]

Its a MK IV. Open 6s in the depth rating and the "f" of feet above tie "i" of "Submariner" Bezel looks like service, and case seems it's been polished quite heavily. Chamfered lugs are quite evident. Bracelet looks like replacement too. I'd say EUR 5,000 - 6,000 tops, depending on state of dial / lume, crown (original or replacement triplock) overall case status, etc.

Please don't forget to tell us who is offering GBP 1,000 for this beauty. My son would call him a smarty pants and would like to punch his nose, I would call him a b@ndit, to say the least, and while not violent by nature, some nose- punching would seem in order to me too.

[Welshwatchman]

I'd love to know who offered you just £1,000.

PM me if you need to.

[Tcaviglioli]

If you been offered 6000 GBP by a dealer, it is a good price and I would go for it given the condition of the watch. It is not the rarest version of the red sub and the condition is not above average as described above, I am not sure a direct sale would get you a lot more and with a dealer you don't have all the worries of selling a watch to an individual.

For sure, offering 1k is dishonest and you should disclose the name of the dealer.

I hope this can help!

Best,

Thomas

[Matt_w]

Mark020 - The bracelet number is 93150. As mentioned in the listing I know for sure this is a replacement. You may be right with the hands being replaced, I honestly don't know. Both my father and grandfather have passed away so I'm afraid I cant ask anyone who would know.

drainaps - Thanks for the info, but I have no clue what 'the "f" of feet above tie "i" of "Submariner" Bezel looks like service' or 'Chamfered lugs are quite evident' mean, please can you explain to a laymen like my self please.

I was slightly mistaken with the offer too. I was offered £1,000 by Austin Kaye before they realised it was a Red Submariner. At the time I didn't know the difference so hadn't explained it clear enough. Once they realised it was Red they upped the offer to £3,000. A company called Watchfinder.co.uk offerd me £2,000 when I clearly stated it was a Red. When I explained why I declined his offer his reply, word for word, was;

"This is a sound trade price for a watch of this calibre. It’s likely to need a service and therefore go back to Rolex and being a vintage, this will take some time and cost quite a lot."

When I said my highest offer so far was £4,900 he immediately came back with an offer of £5,000.

[drainaps]

Matt:

A quick way to tell the "version" of Red Sub you have ( and how scarce / pricey it is) is to look at the "6s" in "660 ft" and at where the lowest part of the letter "f" in "ft." sits on top of the letters below. Your open 6s ( the loop in the number not being totally closed, hence seeing a bit of black below) and lowest part of the "f" sitting on top of the "I" in " Superlative" qualify it as a Mark IV or 4 th generation. This translates into a " middle of the road" Red Sub, but still a desirable one.

The bezel ( rotatable piece of black aluminum around the dial) has numbers printed on it. The font of the printing varies slightly depending on newer or older bezels. Red subs should come originally with what the experts call a "fat font" bezel insert ( numbering in the bezel). Yours looks like a replacement ( newer) " thin font" bezel, hence bringing the price further down.

The lugs are the part of the case that the bracelet attaches to. When polishing the case, the edges of the lugs, which are originally beveled, lose their crispness and become chamfered. A non polished watch commands a higher price.

Another thing not showing in your pics is the crown. Does it have 3 tiny dots below the Rolex coronet ( logo)? If so, it is a later service replacement, as red subs did not mount the " trip lock crown" originally but were upgraded to it at later stages when servicing the watch. By doing so the watch loses in originality and commands a lower price.

As you can see, the Red Sub is a pretty well dissected specimen of the Rolex fauna, and experts in this forum abound ( I'm the humblest of their pupils, though).

Well noted on Messrs "Austin Kaye" and " watch finder.co.uk". They go straight to my hall of shame.

Enjoy your day.

Originally Posted by Matt_w

drainaps - Thanks for the info, but I have no clue what 'the "f" of feet above tie "i" of "Submariner" Bezel looks like service' or 'Chamfered lugs are quite evident' mean, please can you explain to a laymen like my self please.

I was slightly mistaken with the offer too. I was offered £1,000 by Austin Kaye before they realised it was a Red Submariner. At the time I didn't know the difference so hadn't explained it clear enough. Once they realised it was Red they upped the offer to £3,000. A company called Watchfinder.co.uk offerd me £2,000 when I clearly stated it was a Red. When I explained why I declined his offer his reply, word for word, was;

"This is a sound trade price for a watch of this calibre. It’s likely to need a service and therefore go back to Rolex and being a vintage, this will take some time and cost quite a lot."

When I said my highest offer so far was £4,900 he immediately came back with an offer of £5,000.

[Matt_w]

drainaps - Thank you very much for your wealth of knowledge. That all makes much more sense now and all I thought I knew of the watch I now don't know! In answer to your question, yes it has 3 dots :(

I gather from what you have said, and the ever increasing evidence the watch is worth less than I may have thought, that I should bite someone's arm off that offers £5,000?

[drainaps]

Matt I cannot help here. I live in Asia and am out of touch with the UK / European market. I might say something silly. GBP 5,000 is Max in Asia without box or papers, non- original bracelet, insert or crown. Anyway I'll bow to the experts in residence. I am sure this Forum's finest will jump in at your post and give a qualified answer. Best of luck with your trade. Tell us how It goes. :-)

Originally Posted by Matt_w

drainaps - In answer to your question, yes it has 3 dots :(

I gather from what you have said, and the ever increasing evidence the watch is worth less than I may have thought, that I should bite someone's arm off that offers £5,000?

[Mark020]

No expert as well but I haven't seen Red Subs under E6,5k here. All the things mentioned before can be fixed bar the overpolishing. In the end this is still a demanded watch and your best chance (IMHO) for selling would be a private buyer in a face to face deal.

[drtooth73]

Take the £6,000!

[Matt_w]

Really appreciate the advice, even if it is slightly varied. I think I will try for the private sale first then and see where it leaves me.

Obviously this site has a sales section, but I don't qualify for that just yet, any other places you can recommend?

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Matt_w

I was slightly mistaken with the offer too. I was offered £1,000 by Austin Kaye before they realised it was a Red Submariner. At the time I didn't know the difference so hadn't explained it clear enough. Once they realised it was Red they upped the offer to £3,000.

A company called Watchfinder.co.uk offerd me £2,000 when I clearly stated it was a Red. When I explained why I declined his offer his reply, word for word, was;

"This is a sound trade price for a watch of this calibre. It’s likely to need a service and therefore go back to Rolex and being a vintage, this will take some time and cost quite a lot."

When I said my highest offer so far was £4,900 he immediately came back with an offer of £5,000.

At least their offer wasn't £4,900.01.

These grey dealers have similar overheads to ADs so they have to make their money from somewhere.

I still remember an AD offering me £1500 for my 16610LV when I made a casual enquiry on trading a couple of mine against a nice piece.

I just chuckled, drank his coffee and left. No rants required.

Always sell to the enthusiast and starve the grey dealers of the good stuff.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Matt_w

Obviously this site has a sales section, but I don't qualify for that just yet, any other places you can recommend?

No links to other sites please.

[Matt_w]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

At least their offer wasn't £4,900.01.

These grey dealers have similar overheads to ADs so they have to make their money from somewhere.

I still remember an AD offering me £1500 for my 16610LV when I made a casual enquiry on trading a couple of mine against a nice piece.

I just chuckled, drank his coffee and left. No rants required.

Always sell to the enthusiast and starve the grey dealers of the good stuff.

lol, the immediate response and differences in offers made me want to stay wall anyway from these guys. I do understand they need to make money, but they were offering me well under what they knew it was worth as they thought I hadn't done any home work (thanks to sites like this I did)

I'm with you there on the selling it to an enthusiast, I'd rather sell it to someone who wants the watch for the watch, not just for a quick buck so to speak, even if I sell it for a little less. The watch means a lot to me so I'd like it to go to a nice home.

[Matt_w]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

No links to other sites please.

My bad, I wasn't actually asking for a link but I guess asking for recommendations is effectively asking for a link...

[RolexSA]

Matt , shame that you should want or have to sell this watch especially it has been in the family since new . I say this because my father as a marine biologist died in a diving accident of the coast of Durban (SA) whilst wearing the exact same watch . Yours seems in excellent condition compared to the one my father wore . My father's watch stayed with my half sister as she was the one that recuperated most of my fathers personal belongings immeadiatly after the accident . As much I'd love to have his watch for obvious reasons I doubt that will ever happen given the terms I'm on with my half sister .
Hope you make the right choice .

[DiamondJack]

I would have thought £6k was a reasonably good price from a dealer.

You could probably get perhaps another £1k on a forum like TRF but with no history or track record, you would probably only be able to do a face to face deal.

The negatives as already mentioned above are no box and papers, looks a little like a thin font replacement bezel, potentially replacement hands as they look very white compared to the hour markers (do they glow at all in the dark?), replacement crown with 3 dots, incorrect bracelet (should be 9315 for open 6's Mark IV) and some visible polishing on the case.

But still a very nice watch and a shame to sell given the family background..... but needs must I suppose.

[tattooedfagin]

worth mention this regarding the crown....

Red Subs with case numbers <3M were manufactured with “Twin Lock” Crowns. These crowns do not have “dots” under the Rolex logo. Subsequent crowns had 3 small dots under the crown and were called “Triplock” crowns. Most watches that went in for service were upgraded to Triplock crowns after their introduction in 1973.

Although there are no premiums attached to having either crown, it is nice to see a watch with its original Twinlock crown still in place. This novelty adds a small flair of authenticity and some reassurance that the watch is still in its original state.

[fusionstorm]

I know nothing of what red Subs sell for in the UK.

But what I have seen from various online forums that have a noticeable vintage Roles flavor is that it would take awhile to get 6000 sterling for this particular piece. While the bracelet and crystal (likely it's been changed at some point in its lifetime) being of later vintage aren't going to have much of any drag on the value, the replacement hands, bezel insert and tritium dot (if the dot in the bezel insert glows, it's a later luminova replacement) will definitely factor into the cost to make this as period correct as possible for a collector.

[arttay10]

I would consider the £6k you have already been offered for this watch. Given it's condition - as pointed out by other members and the polishing on the case, I think £6k is a very fair offer.

[Mark020]

Question is whether the 6k was a phone offer or after seeing it. I'm not sure how much dealers will mark it up but I think it will be not easy for them to make a decent profit if buying for 6k.

[drainaps]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

These grey dealers have similar overheads to ADs so they have to make their money from somewhere.

If somebody offers GBP 1K for something they knowingly can trade for 5/6K, that has nothing to do, in my opinion, with overheads, but with plain good old honesty (or lack of). I can only qualify of SCUM whoever has those trading standards. I can understand some precaution before a proper examination of the watch is conducted, hence holding judgment / pricing before that happens, but that does not justify in a million years abusing others. Kudos to Matt for being smart and asking around.

Matt, I refrained from saying it yesterday but has already been mentioned: Do NOT trade the watch unless really compelled to. It was your father's and your grandpa's. I am afraid these postings in TRF will come back to haunt you, sooner or later, should you decide to part ways with it....

[alanski]

i agree with what a few have said £6k is a strong strong price for this watch without any service history , the lugs on the right side look a bit thin
inserty is a service replacement and hands look like they have been changed too .

perosnally if someones offers anything around £5-6k i would take it and walk away , call it a day and say a little prayer of thanks to dear old grandad

a friend sold a minty original example with rolex service papers for £7k the other week but you gotta remember rolex london charge 6-700 quid to get the service done with a turn around time of crica 20-25 weeks .

if it were mines take the 5-6k and walk , its a decent strong offer , selling private will probably net you low £6s at best but you will need to sell it personally and deal with all the logistics as well

hope this helps a little

Al

[xela]

I don't think it can fetch 6k if the dealer sees the actual watch.. Nicer ones are going at lower prices.

Keep it and use it. Pass on the legacy.. :)

[Matt_w]

RolexSA – Sorry to hear about your father, my dad was a commercial diver but never wore this watch diving. Sadly he didn’t die doing something he loved but instead died in a car accident. I know that doesn’t necessarily help, but I guess I may have had some comfort knowing he was doing something he lived and breathed for. His passion for diving and the water lead me to join the Royal Navy as a Marine Engineer where I learned to dive and made him so proud I saw him cry for one of the few times in his whole life. He brought me a Tag Heuer professional divers watch for my 21st birthday and this is my most precious memory of him – not only did he buy it for me, the reasoning’s behind it with diving etc make me smile every day. The reason I am saying this is because this reason is why I am caught in two minds with the Rolex. I understand what you are saying in terms of keeping it, and if the decision was down to me I would keep the watch, but as DiamondJack said, ‘needs must’. I said to me partner last night I don’t want to sell it and she wasn’t best please. My Tag, although not as valuable, is more sentimental to me so I will always have that. The other part is the value. If I decide to keep the Rolex I have two brothers that are just as entitled to it as I am who love it as much as me. If one of us were to keep the watch we all feel the person keeping the watch would have to pay the other two 1/3rd of its value each. My brothers (who are twins and only 15 months younger than me) and I have a great relationship and I wouldn’t want a watch nor a few thousand pounds to change that.

I really appreciate the comments with its value and opinions. It’s got me thinking and maybe a chat with my brothers is needed....

[RolexSA]

Matt , thank you for the kind words . I have have always found some comfort in the fact he left us whilst doing what he loved most .
I'm sure you will make the right decision and you are right in not letting some money ruin a good relationship with your brothers and partner . It's only a watch after all and that will not alter the fond memories you have of your father .
All the best

[Matt_w]

After some deliberation the 3 of us have decided we will sell the watch. Preferably to someone that wants the watch rather than to make money on it. I will put a post in the selling section so if anyone wants a Red Sub or knows someone that does, point them my way.

Thanks for all the comments on the watch value. As most have said 5-6k is a good offer, I will try to get the top end of that first on here and if no luck I will go to a local dealer that has already made me an offer.

[Changmaisausage]

[ A company called Watchfinder.co.uk offerd me £2,000 when I clearly stated it was a Red. When I explained why I declined his offer his reply, word for word, was;

"This is a sound trade price for a watch of this calibre. It’s likely to need a service and therefore go back to Rolex and being a vintage, this will take some time and cost quite a lot."

When I said my highest offer so far was £4,900 he immediately came back with an offer of £5,000.[/QUOTE]

From experience I wont use this company IO bought a Panerai in good faith from them, they told me it was a full set only for me to arrive back in the UK six months later to find no outer box a broken main box, missing screw driver. I rung them and emailed them without any response.

Their loss I'll buy my watches else where from now on.