ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Ed Rooney · 16 February 2012, 06:59 AM

Approaching a T-intersection, with another car in front of me. He glides through the stop sign, but then sees a police car coming from the left. He stops suddenly, but is past the stop sign. I pull up to the stop sign. Cop slows down and is watching us from the road to the right. Other dude goes, I check to see if it is clear, then go. Cop pulls ME over for not stopping. I said I did stop, and the other dude was past the sign. He says it was "his stop" and that I should have stopped again. I was at the white line! Am I supposed to stop twice, or be "more stopped" than I was? Cop even admitted after writing the ticket that I had stopped. I was fully stopped, signal on, at a stop sign, and pulled out when the intersection was clear. What more should I have done?

I told him I would go to court on this just on principle. My day of vacation is worth far more than the $90 ticket, but no way am I paying this one.

Maybe he had a quota and figured the guy in the 07 530i is more likely to just pay up than the guy in the rickety 89 Camry.

Frustrating, and PG County is not exactly a low-crime county. He should have better stuff to do.

GradyPhilpott · 16 February 2012, 07:13 AM

By all means go to court, but ask for a continuance on some rational basis as many times as they will let you. When you finally go to do battle, have a conversation with the city attorney before court and explain your position.

Two things will likely happen in my experience. The police officer will not have shown up and/or the city attorney will agree to drop the case. The court would rather people just roll over an pay up. Court dockets don't leave much time for argument and ultimately, one ticket's not that big a deal to them.

You might be offered plea bargain that is less burdensome, but I wouldn't suggest that in this case.

I'm not a lawyer, but these tactics have worked for me in the past on several occasions.

One more piece of advice: Put your Rolex in your pocket while in the courthouse.

Ed Rooney · 16 February 2012, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

By all means go to court, but ask for a continuance on some rational basis as many times as they will let you. When you finally go to do battle, have a conversation with the city attorney before court and explain your position.

Two things will likely happen in my experience. The police officer will not have shown up and/or the city attorney will agree to drop the case.

You might be offered plea bargain that is less burdensome, but I wouldn't suggest that in this case.

I'm not a lawyer, but these tactics have worked for me in the past on several occasions.

It's not a matter of getting out of it, or the officer not showing up. I want the officer to be there and have to explain this ticket. I want to have my say in court and if they still say I'm guilty I will hand over $90.

GradyPhilpott · 16 February 2012, 07:19 AM

I have some experience with that scenario, too, but when I went to court, I had my ducks in a row and had incontrovertible evidence for my case. It was a slam dunk and the court had to admit error.

I do agree that there is much to be said for having your day in court, even if it means losing. I've been there, too.

towernick · 16 February 2012, 07:20 AM

You do NOT want the officer there, trust me, if the officer shows up, you're getting the ticket for sure.

Ed Rooney · 16 February 2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towernick

You do NOT want the officer there, trust me, if the officer shows up, you're getting the ticket for sure.

Fine. I'll pay the $90 to make him look bad.

GradyPhilpott · 16 February 2012, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Fine. I'll pay the $90 to make him look bad.

I think you lost me there.

The idea is to get you to pay.

It only makes them look bad when you don't have to, based on the evidence or some technicality.

Anyway, good luck.

Ed Rooney · 16 February 2012, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I think you lost me there.

The idea is to get you to pay.

It only makes them look bad when you don't have to, based on the evidence or some technicality.

Anyway, good luck.

That was my response to the notion of kangaroo traffic court rules where the cop is always right. If they are going to slam dunk me, a room full of people and the court is going to hear my side.

masterserg · 16 February 2012, 07:41 AM

I agree with the comment above. If the officer is there, you are done. My 2c ... just pay and be done with it ... Use the energy for something else ... I mean, you are not teaching anybody a lesson, nobody gives a cr@p either way (i am referring to the judge, the officer, etc.) it is just revenue for them ... so mind as well move on.

Ed Rooney · 16 February 2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterserg

I agree with the comment above. If the officer is there, you are done. My 2c ... just pay and be done with it ... Use the energy for something else ... I mean, you are not teaching anybody a lesson, nobody gives a cr@p either way (i am referring to the judge, the officer, etc.) it is just revenue for them ... so mind as well move on.

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

masterserg · 16 February 2012, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

C'mon ... do you really want the coronary stress for 90 bucks??

Grumpy Badger · 16 February 2012, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Errr, that might have been the JAPANESE!

I know where you are coming from wanting to fight it but you'll probably expend a lot of energy and emotion and be very lucky to get satisfaction.

Good luck!

MonBK · 16 February 2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Badger

Errr, that might have been the JAPANESE!

I know where you are coming from wanting to fight it but you'll probably expend a lot of energy and emotion and be very lucky to get satisfaction.

Good luck!

Blame everything on the Germans, after all they started two world wars.

Ed Rooney · 16 February 2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterserg

C'mon ... do you really want the coronary stress for 90 bucks??

It's not stressful at all. It's like playing $90 worth of blackjack in Vegas. I'm prepared to lose it since the house has things in their favor, but if I get hot for a while and know when to walk away, I can have some fun with it.

Hopefully the court date is on a nice day in May. Maybe I will be done early and I can go play some golf.

masterserg · 16 February 2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

It's not stressful at all. It's like playing $90 worth of blackjack in Vegas. I'm prepared to lose it since the house has things in their favor, but if I get hot for a while and know when to walk away, I can have some fun with it.

Hopefully the court date is on a nice day in May. Maybe I will be done early and I can go play some golf.

Fair enough if you handle it like that. I know I'd get mad and blow it out of proportion ...

SaddleSC · 16 February 2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

It is amazing that you still choose to drive a German car...especially since they bombed Pearl Harbor, right?

cajunron · 16 February 2012, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

It's not a matter of getting out of it, or the officer not showing up. I want the officer to be there and have to explain this ticket. I want to have my say in court and if they still say I'm guilty I will hand over $90.

Yeah you right! It a matter of principle; stick to your guns. Whether you win or lose, you will have the satisfaction of having your say. Then it's up to the judge to decide. I would fight it too.

Paladin · 16 February 2012, 09:05 AM

A man who has no principles or jettisons them for convenience is not a man IMHO.

There is always honor in fighting the good fight!

Godspeed to you sir!

skypilot · 16 February 2012, 09:12 AM

There's no much purpose in getting into a fight you're not going to win. I got a totally silly ticket last year and was as incensed about it as you are but I knew enough about the court system to realize that I would lose by myself so I hired an attorney.
There was no trial, the atty met with the prosecutor and they discussed the case and informed the cop that the ticket would be dismissed by the court.
It cost me $250 to beat a $65 ticket but it was well worth it.

chaisson · 16 February 2012, 09:17 AM

If you know your right, fight it. It's the principle of the thing....

East Bay Rider · 16 February 2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1...e_gdata_player

(language)

BarkMaster · 16 February 2012, 09:45 AM

I've been in the same circumstance and wondered if I'd get a ticket.

I guess that answers it.

Brunotheboxer · 16 February 2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Good thing we didn't feel that way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

fespo276 · 16 February 2012, 10:32 AM

This is not a comment about your case, as I was not present. However, if someone fights a ticket from my PD, and we have to go to court, we get paid overtime (as you can imagine) with a minimum 4 hour time period. He will probably show and not mind.

sherwin · 16 February 2012, 10:40 AM

As much as I dislike traffic tickets... I say pay up and move on. If you do contest it, and the cop shows up, he will not only say, you semi stopped, but to further bolster his case, he will say, you ran the sign, along with some BS. At least thats the case with australian (perth) cops.

Had a mate's car that brake hose slipped off, the cop charged him with reckless driving, and yellow stickered his car.

Brunotheboxer · 16 February 2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fespo276

This is not a comment about your case, as I was not present. However, if someone fights a ticket from my PD, and we have to go to court, we get paid overtime (as you can imagine) with a minimum 4 hour time period. He will probably show and not mind.

Thats why the system is broken and will Never be fixed.

The city is trying to essentially make $90 off of the OP but will have to pay out I'm guessing around $160 to the cop to collect it.

BarkMaster · 16 February 2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

Thats why the system is broken and will Never be fixed.

The city is trying to essentially make $90 off of the OP but will have to pay out I'm guessing around $160 to the cop to collect it.

I'll bet most people pay, so it's a high profit business!

FeelingTheBlues · 16 February 2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgdejong

Yeah you right! It a matter of principle; stick to your guns. Whether you win or lose, you will have the satisfaction of having your say. Then it's up to the judge to decide. I would fight it too.

Same opinion here, I wish you good luck.

Now I don't know about you in the US but my sister went to court a couple of weeks ago for a ticket and the police officer didn't even have to show up. She had to explain herself to an attorney and a judge and they would decide about the case but he had nothing to do in this process.

GradyPhilpott · 16 February 2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeelingTheBlues

Now I don't know about you in the US but my sister went to court a couple of weeks ago for a ticket and the cop didn't even have to show up. She had to explain herself to an attorney and a judge and they would decide about the case but the police officer had nothing to do in this process.

I think I've heard of this development, too, but I'm not too sure about how widespread it is at this time.

The US Constitution demands that the accused must be able to face his accuser in a court of law. There have been some ways to wriggle around that in some jurisdictions and in some cases, but I'm not very much up on that.

Widows Son · 16 February 2012, 02:11 PM

Stop calling us cops, we're police officers!!!!

16 February 2012, 06:59 AM	#1
Ed Rooney "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Annapolis, MD Watch: Sea-Dweller 16600 Posts: 5,081	Got a ticket today Approaching a T-intersection, with another car in front of me. He glides through the stop sign, but then sees a police car coming from the left. He stops suddenly, but is past the stop sign. I pull up to the stop sign. Cop slows down and is watching us from the road to the right. Other dude goes, I check to see if it is clear, then go. Cop pulls ME over for not stopping. I said I did stop, and the other dude was past the sign. He says it was "his stop" and that I should have stopped again. I was at the white line! Am I supposed to stop twice, or be "more stopped" than I was? Cop even admitted after writing the ticket that I had stopped. I was fully stopped, signal on, at a stop sign, and pulled out when the intersection was clear. What more should I have done? I told him I would go to court on this just on principle. My day of vacation is worth far more than the $90 ticket, but no way am I paying this one. Maybe he had a quota and figured the guy in the 07 530i is more likely to just pay up than the guy in the rickety 89 Camry. Frustrating, and PG County is not exactly a low-crime county. He should have better stuff to do.

16 February 2012, 07:13 AM	#2
GradyPhilpott 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Mexico Watch: Seiko #SRK047 Posts: 34,460	By all means go to court, but ask for a continuance on some rational basis as many times as they will let you. When you finally go to do battle, have a conversation with the city attorney before court and explain your position. Two things will likely happen in my experience. The police officer will not have shown up and/or the city attorney will agree to drop the case. The court would rather people just roll over an pay up. Court dockets don't leave much time for argument and ultimately, one ticket's not that big a deal to them. You might be offered plea bargain that is less burdensome, but I wouldn't suggest that in this case. I'm not a lawyer, but these tactics have worked for me in the past on several occasions. One more piece of advice: Put your Rolex in your pocket while in the courthouse. __________________ JJ Inaugural TRF $50 Watch Challenge Winner

16 February 2012, 07:19 AM	#4
GradyPhilpott 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Mexico Watch: Seiko #SRK047 Posts: 34,460	I have some experience with that scenario, too, but when I went to court, I had my ducks in a row and had incontrovertible evidence for my case. It was a slam dunk and the court had to admit error. I do agree that there is much to be said for having your day in court, even if it means losing. I've been there, too. __________________ JJ Inaugural TRF $50 Watch Challenge Winner

16 February 2012, 07:41 AM	#9
masterserg "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Real Name: Serg Location: US of A Watch: AP Posts: 7,437	I agree with the comment above. If the officer is there, you are done. My 2c ... just pay and be done with it ... Use the energy for something else ... I mean, you are not teaching anybody a lesson, nobody gives a cr@p either way (i am referring to the judge, the officer, etc.) it is just revenue for them ... so mind as well move on. __________________ How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat????

16 February 2012, 09:05 AM	#18
Paladin "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: So. California Posts: 1,232	A man who has no principles or jettisons them for convenience is not a man IMHO. There is always honor in fighting the good fight! Godspeed to you sir! __________________ 1601, 1675/3, 16753, 16750, 16750, 16700, 16610, 18238

16 February 2012, 07:20 AM	#5
towernick Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 880	You do NOT want the officer there, trust me, if the officer shows up, you're getting the ticket for sure.

16 February 2012, 09:12 AM	#19
skypilot "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 490	There's no much purpose in getting into a fight you're not going to win. I got a totally silly ticket last year and was as incensed about it as you are but I knew enough about the court system to realize that I would lose by myself so I hired an attorney. There was no trial, the atty met with the prosecutor and they discussed the case and informed the cop that the ticket would be dismissed by the court. It cost me $250 to beat a $65 ticket but it was well worth it.

16 February 2012, 09:17 AM	#20
chaisson "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Watch: 14060M Posts: 358	If you know your right, fight it. It's the principle of the thing....

16 February 2012, 09:45 AM	#22
BarkMaster "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas Watch: 18078 YG DD Posts: 7,962	I've been in the same circumstance and wondered if I'd get a ticket. I guess that answers it. __________________ BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK

16 February 2012, 10:32 AM	#24
fespo276 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CT Watch: 116610LN Posts: 160	This is not a comment about your case, as I was not present. However, if someone fights a ticket from my PD, and we have to go to court, we get paid overtime (as you can imagine) with a minimum 4 hour time period. He will probably show and not mind.

16 February 2012, 10:40 AM	#25
sherwin "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Perth/Singapore Posts: 1,764	As much as I dislike traffic tickets... I say pay up and move on. If you do contest it, and the cop shows up, he will not only say, you semi stopped, but to further bolster his case, he will say, you ran the sign, along with some BS. At least thats the case with australian (perth) cops. Had a mate's car that brake hose slipped off, the cop charged him with reckless driving, and yellow stickered his car. __________________ Want to Buy:SS GMT black;116509 WG Daytona Metrorite

16 February 2012, 02:11 PM	#30
Widows Son "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 3,564	Stop calling us cops, we're police officers!!!!

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