In House Movements

[FNFZ4]

Hi guys...

was just wondering, who are the brands that make their own movement? i only know Rolex and JLC.. im not sure about the others.

[B. Doggy]

A ton of them do. More to follow with outsourced ETA's not being available in the future.

[stockae92]

Seiko -- from the cheapest one to Grand Seiko, all are in-house movement

[eric23]

Patek, AP, Panerai. just to name a few.

[capote]

Lange, VC, Zenith, Omega, IWC (all/some)

[FNFZ4]

inst Panerai and Omaga ETA?

[MrJ320]

Both Panerai and Omega have models that have in-house movements.

[FNFZ4]

ahhh god i love this place. i have learned so much...

[FNFZ4]

so who are the independents? not owned by Swatch group etc...

[psv]

Independents: Rolex, Audemars Piguet and Patek Philippe to start with.

If you counting the smaller 'truly' independents ones? F.P. Journe, Philippe Dufour, Urwerk, Richard Mille, Martin Braun etc.

Not a complete list.

[TB72]

Breitling now have their Caliber 01 which they use in the Navitimer, Chronomat and chronograph Transocean. Very reliable by all accounts.

[mfer]

In-house has a loose meaning.

What most mean is that the movement was designed in-house, but it can use manufactured parts from other suppliers.

For example, Nivarox (a subsidiary of the SWATCH group) produces almost all of the hairsprings for watches. Most also don't make their own screws as well. Very few companies make their own. Roger Dubois, Glashutte and Rolex do for example.

[Java]

It is such a minefield. Outsourcing is part of the watch industry.
Almost No-one make every part of their in-house movements.
Some ebuche based movements are almost more in-house than so called in-house movements.
Here are some examples that muddy the water.

IWC use a lot of ETA movements, but they build all of them and replace most of the wheels and bearings.

Ulysse Nardin use a lot of ETA movements but replace most moving parts with their own. They also make and supply a lot of the wheels and nearly all of the screws for almost everyone else.

PP have out sourced Chronos for a very long time , until recently

Franck Muller put ETA 2892 in most of their lower end (still over $10,00) and don't even touch them

VC use a lot of od JLC movements, as do AP

Rolex used a Zenith in the Daytona until 2000.

I could go on for several pages.

In-house or Ebuche does not make or break a watch. It is about much more than that.

[Rolexpilot]

Minerva

[Java]

Originally Posted by Rolexpilot

Minerva

Their Chronografo in the 1950s used a Valjoux 22

The 1990s Chronografo used a 7750

[TSW]

Originally Posted by Java

It is such a minefield.

VC use a lot of od JLC movements, as do AP

AP did in fact own a huge piece of (40%) of Jaeger LeCoultre until recently, So not really a surprise

[Java]

Originally Posted by TSW

AP did in fact own a huge piece of (40%) of Jaeger LeCoultre until recently, So not really a surprise

That's true.

Sharing of technology, parts, ebuches and movements is part of the strength of Swiss watchmaking.

[KirkWilfred]

I get more compliments on this watch than any of my others. In house movement.

[Perdu]

It seems to the trend but the only two totally vertical companies are Seiko and Rolex.

[Zdenek]

Prim

[dom_]

Nomos

[slcbbrown]

Originally Posted by Java

It is such a minefield. Outsourcing is part of the watch industry.
Almost No-one make every part of their in-house movements.
Some ebuche based movements are almost more in-house than so called in-house movements.
Here are some examples that muddy the water.

IWC use a lot of ETA movements, but they build all of them and replace most of the wheels and bearings.

Ulysse Nardin use a lot of ETA movements but replace most moving parts with their own. They also make and supply a lot of the wheels and nearly all of the screws for almost everyone else.

PP have out sourced Chronos for a very long time , until recently

Franck Muller put ETA 2892 in most of their lower end (still over $10,00) and don't even touch them

VC use a lot of od JLC movements, as do AP

Rolex used a Zenith in the Daytona until 2000.

I could go on for several pages.

In-house or Ebuche does not make or break a watch. It is about much more than that.

There is a big difference between buying an ETA movement and an ETA ebuche. Many brands were buying an ETA movement of various quality levels and dropping them into a case. Others, bought ebuches and replaced major parts with other stuff and completely reassembled the movements. Even PP used chrono ebuches, I believe, and those are worth a fortune.

Maurice Lacroix is now making their own movements, but in the past they were using various movements and reworking them. Girard Perregaux has a 220 year history of inhouse, as well as, purchased movements.

[FNFZ4]

I was just curious as to who are the capable ones on making their own movements

[kilyung]

IWC and Lange make some nice movements.

[Adam K.]

For those just get interested, its worth noting that a house can be described as a "Manufacture" if it makes even one caliber in house!

As many note, outsourcing is a common practice in horology, and its not a bad thing in and of itself. That said, I do tend to prefer knowing that a caliber was designed and crafted largely or fully by the company whose name is on the dial of the watch....however, I'll ALSO admit that in-house doesn't necessarily mean "better", especially in instances where companies have been in too big a hurry to get something to market and end up delivering the consumer a less-than-reliable mechanism that is not fully debugged.

It also seems that more and more companies throughout the middle and upper ranges are trying to go fully in-house and that shift has been going on for years...first, with the big boys you'd most expect like Rolex and PP of course, then with others such as Chopard (who started out with the 1.96 and now has a whole family of superb top-range movements) Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin, Roger Dubuis, Panerai, and Frederique Constant, to name just some. Independents also love creating their own calibers--and rightly so--but these are really in a different league, as production is truly tiny compared to the more industrialized brands.

Others like IWC, are happy (at least so far) to include a mix of calibers designed and made in house for some pieces, and ready-made movements from outside suppliers for others. In many cases, the latter option allows for a comparatively lower price point for some pieces, while keeping functionality and quality high. If we use IWC as an example here, one can pick up a Pilot's Watch Chronograph with an IWC-modded 7750 Valjoux chrono at a much lower price than he/she can a Big Pilot, which has a Manufacture IWC 7-day mechanism--yet still have a very cool timepiece.

[mask1196]

x2

Originally Posted by Adam K.

For those just get interested, its worth noting that a house can be described as a "Manufacture" if it makes even one caliber in house!

As many note, outsourcing is a common practice in horology, and its not a bad thing in and of itself. That said, I do tend to prefer knowing that a caliber was designed and crafted largely or fully by the company whose name is on the dial of the watch....however, I'll ALSO admit that in-house doesn't necessarily mean "better", especially in instances where companies have been in too big a hurry to get something to market and end up delivering the consumer a less-than-reliable mechanism that is not fully debugged.

It also seems that more and more companies throughout the middle and upper ranges are trying to go fully in-house and that shift has been going on for years...first, with the big boys you'd most expect like Rolex and PP of course, then with others such as Chopard (who started out with the 1.96 and now has a whole family of superb top-range movements) Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin, Roger Dubuis, Panerai, and Frederique Constant, to name just some. Independents also love creating their own calibers--and rightly so--but these are really in a different league, as production is truly tiny compared to the more industrialized brands.

Others like IWC, are happy (at least so far) to include a mix of calibers designed and made in house for some pieces, and ready-made movements from outside suppliers for others. In many cases, the latter option allows for a comparatively lower price point for some pieces, while keeping functionality and quality high. If we use IWC as an example here, one can pick up a Pilot's Watch Chronograph with an IWC-modded 7750 Valjoux chrono at a much lower price than he/she can a Big Pilot, which has a Manufacture IWC 7-day mechanism--yet still have a very cool timepiece.

[jolimont]

tag heuer's 1887