A Flippers tale.....sad but true

[koronet-kid]

First apologies for a long post but here’s my AD story:

If like me you love nearly all of the Rolex professional range of watches, but your wallet only allows you to own one, it can be very difficult to settle with one watch, I will confess now I am a serial flipper I just can’t help myself it’s like a disease

Just prior to the recent UK price rise I visit my local EJ to enquire about the Deep Sea I have owned one before, and got the itch again in my eyes this is the ultimate evolution of the Submariner.
Unfortunately the store does not have one in stock.

• I ask is there one within your group you can transfer to this store.
• The assistant checks and advises yes, Great thinks me
• I advise the assistant that my company entitles me to discounted store cards
• I ask is it ok to pay a £500 deposit on my credit card to hold the watch for me
• Assistant states ‘ yes that will be fine’
• I advise I will pay in full with store vouchers once they have been ordered and are sent to me. Will you be able to refund the £500 to my card? Asks me.
• Of course is her reply
• I paid the £500 deposit.....................

If like me you think the above sounds like a verbal contract, then you would be wrong.

I then contact the store Card Company and order and pay for in excess of £6,000 worth of store vouchers feeling warm and fuzzy in the knowledge that soon the mighty Deep Sea will adorn my wrist once more. Of course this does mean I have to sell my LV Ceramic Sub.
Some six days pass my vouchers arrive and the phone rings, Hi it’s........... From EJ, great I think my watch is here................. I was wrong, ‘I am sorry to advise the seven watches that were in group stock are now sold or promised to other customers’

To say I was a tad unhappy might be an understatement, so I ask about the agreement that I made (with the same person who is on the phone) around buying the watch with store vouchers that I now have costing me over £6k the reply made everything ok ‘all I can do is apologise for that’
I have £6k of vouchers for EJ that I can only spend in one of their stores. I ask ‘do you think an apology will be enough to settle this matter’ reply ‘as I have said all I can do is apologise’
I advise the best thing to do is get the manager to call me. Which he does
He advised ‘I can’t sell you a watch because you are a KNOWN dealer’????????

To which I am a little shocked to say the least my opinion:
Dealer someone who trades to make a profit earn a living
Flipper someone who buys a watch a sells it at a loss


I speak to the trading standards in the UK they advise me:
• Goods are only offered for sale (this I knew)
• Any trader can decline to sell goods as long as a refund is given (this I also know)
• I ask what about the verbal agreement(contract)
• Don’t think she understood to be honest
• Her reply contract to buy watch with EJ
• Contract for store cards different company
• Verbal agreement is tuff basically

I am only posting this to warn you all to be careful how you go about your business on the forums; the AD showed me printed copies of my advert from the Rolex forum. Which means they must be paying their staff to check forums to see what we mere mortals are up to?

I requested all the data the hold about me see images attached as proof of them watching I wonder where the directive for this comes from?
EJ did refund my £500 deposit see the receipt you will notice the assistant has written on it
‘Customer not allowed to be sold a Rolex watch’ and some crap about no stock
I will stick to vintage from now on the keep myself away from such BS
Best
Sean

[wantonebad]

ouch

[Londonboy]

And interesting too.

[superdog]

wow, my AD, who i rarely buy from anymore (because I buy from DavidSW) will sell my just about anything i ask for.

personally, i think this is a load of BS. what you do with your watch after you buy it is not their business. they should simply be happy that you are purchasing their products.

[masterserg]

What a load of BS! Pretty shocking!

[c9smw]

Why not get a mate to go in the store & order it for you ???

[Solo118]

I hear Ferrari does this, as they do not want somebody else selling a car for a profit that they could have sold. But a Rolex AD? Come on.... that is beyond ridiculous.

find yourself a new AD, or use a trusted seller right here on TRF.

[Knappo 1307]

Makes absolutely no sense. They made their money (Rolex and AD). Who cares what you do with it. I'm curious how did they know your online (TRF) name?

[mikeinalexandria]

This is crazy! I would send all the info to Rolex and watch them pull the dealership. How can a shop refuse to sell their product after you already purchased a bunch of watches from them? Madness. If this happened in the US the Better Business Bureau would be all over them.

[mjclark32]

Wow, wonder if they would have done so much detective work if you didn't use company vouchers?

[caryyee]

I hear Patek also do this for their more higher end timepieces ... that you have to fill in an application form and that you are 'vetted' before being allowed to buy. If they think you will re-sell it, then they will not sell you the timepiece.

Have never heard this happen for Rolex though!

[mjclark32]

Originally Posted by mikeinalexandria

This is crazy! I would send all the info to Rolex and watch them pull the dealership. How can a shop refuse to sell their product after you already purchased a bunch of watches from them? Madness. If this happened in the US the Better Business Bureau would be all over them.

It's their store, they don't HAVE to sell to everyone.
I wonder what stance Rolex would take

OP, since your company is somehow related to the AD is there someone you can speak with at your company and have it resolved?

[wantonebad]

One of the local liquor stores to me that has allotments of hard to get liquor and wine, will only sell to you if you promise not to resell, ever! They monitor e-bay, Craigs list and other websites that specialize in booze and if they catch someone selling products that they've sold to them, they will take the offender off of their preferred list and won't sell to them anymore. They had people buying sine qua non, Pahlmeyer, Screaming Eagle and reselling it. Even today if you get on their list for Buffalo Trace's hard to get stuff like PVW they make you sign an agreement not to resell.

[The GMT Master]

Intriguing. Well, if it's any consolation, the Signet group are losing Rolex anyway, so you won't have to put up with their shenanigans any longer

[FremStar]

Sorry to hear/read this OP!

Originally Posted by Solo118

I hear Ferrari does this, as they do not want somebody else selling a car for a profit that they could have sold. But a Rolex AD? Come on.... that is beyond ridiculous.

find yourself a new AD, or use a trusted seller right here on TRF.

Yes. True!

Originally Posted by caryyee

I hear Patek also do this for their more higher end timepieces ... that you have to fill in an application form and that you are 'vetted' before being allowed to buy. If they think you will re-sell it, then they will not sell you the timepiece.

Have never heard this happen for Rolex though!

Yes. True and there has been one account that I am very aware of. Will leave names out, however, quick story a 5131G was awarded to a long time client at one of the shops I deal with... long story short that 5131G wound up in Asia and was sent to the Patek service center there for verification, word got back to NY, needless to say there was a whole host of issues with what the collector did in reselling the timepiece! The AD was reprimanded, however, made a case that once the timepiece left the shop there was no way to know or monitor what the gentleman was going to do.

[Rodentman]

AD doesn't seem to be fair, IMHO. Strange way to do business...

[jay1988]

I really don't get how they found out your username.

[DJJon]

Originally Posted by jay1988

I really don't get how they found out your username.

Could easily trace the watches based on sales history to one individual and the photos showing the Serial Numbers with a few digits blacked out.

Sad, horrified, etc. A company the size of Rolex should not be concerned over this small quantity of watch resales by one honest watch enthusiast.

[jay1988]

Originally Posted by DJJon

Could easily trace the watches based on sales history to one individual and the photos showing the Serial Numbers with a few digits blacked out.

Sad, horrified, etc. A company the size of Rolex should not be concerned over this small quantity of watch resales by one honest watch enthusiast.

Easily is a strong word.

It would require personal investigation which would not be cheap. All that effort to stop a guy who sells a few watches. I mean Rolex must have a team of people dedicated to doing that research which must cost a good deal of money.

[masterserg]

I guess they think it adds to the myth of exclusivity? Disgusting.

[Rodentman]

I would say that an AD whose employees are directed on company time to follow watch forums could use their payroll better. In theory at least, the AD should know "everything" that the customer could ask, and if not shouldn't rely on the internet for answers, if that's the intent.

I have had AD's comment on postings I made in the past. I may make a comment going forward but I don't mention the AD by name and I'm very reluctant to say anthing negative, even if true. Certainly not mentioning the AD by name. There are several AD's in this city....

[michel33]

Sorry but I don't get how they got your username on TRF??? Unless you showed the entire watches' serial number in your ads, but I guess you did not.

So please explain to us how they figured it out, because this sounds so odd....

[withthesword]

that sounds really dumb. does this mean that you've been blacklisted from all ADs or just this one?

[baldyspoon]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Intriguing. Well, if it's any consolation, the Signet group are losing Rolex anyway, so you won't have to put up with their shenanigans any longer

Not sure if this true as have got a 114060 on order and was worried as had heard this, but when I spoke to head office only some stores are losing Rolex and they will be continuing to sell Rolex

[smartson]

I am speechless

[ingoodtime]

If you bought it and wore it. For 6 months and decided to take the hit or break even and buy something else, I'd think it a win win situation for everyone involved. I don't get their attitude at the store level or possibly higher.

The whole attitude that Rolex USA has bothers me.....Does Ferrari refuse to service your car if you customize it after the purchase?

[Welshwatchman]

The "customer not allowed to be sold a Rolex watch" statement is galling.

So what if you flipped a few watches? It appears that you've stood still generally, selling at a 20% reduction from RRP whilst obtaining a supposed 15/20% discount.

Rolex were decent value in 2007. £3k> Sub and SD.

Today's prices, not so much.

[toph]

What on earth?

[mrbill2mrbill2]

I agree this is BS. But, any vender can choose not to sell to someone.

[cht]

I am confused....
So what are these company vouchers exactly?
How do they allow you a 15-20% discount?