My 1680 - an interesting example? Thoughts welcome!

[Guitarfan]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the Rolex world and joined not long ago after buying my 1680 pictured below. It appears to be an interesting example based on my research, as it seems to not fit all the criteria for a '75 white so I'd be interested to see what you guys think?

* Original purchase date: January 1976, UK supplied
* Purchased by me this year via a dealer, who bought it from the original owner
* Serial number: 5.8million
* Serviced by Rolex UK 4 times - 1979, 1986, 1995 and 2002
* Silver brushed date wheel with open 6/9/16/19 and closed 26
* Triplock crown
* Lightly bevelled top hat crystal
* Replacement 93150 bracelet dated 1993 with 593 endlinks
* Replacement luminova pearl
* Unusual watch reference number on original guarantee: 15H A830/73

Any thoughts from the experts on:

a) the dial (the 'ft' extents to the A above, unlike all MK dials)
b) the serial number in relation to the purchase date (Rolex UK have no issue with it)
c) the unusual watch reference number

Thanks in advance!

[Guitarfan]

While browsing the forum I've found some info on the dial I have:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=291212

I have a '93 Omega Speedmaster with lovely aged tritium dial/hands so if it is a service replacement it could easily have been fitted as late as '95.

However...

My watch seems to have the original bezel insert, which I would have thought would have been replaced at some point at service as it shows wear. Why not replace the bezel insert when fitting a new dial/hands? In addition, the original owner had the bracelet replaced as the clasp had broken (at service in '95?), but the dealer I bought the watch from did not mention any changes to the dial/hands.

It seems to be quite a rare dial but I've found a couple of other pics. It does not glow at all. Nothing. Zilch.

[stevedssd]

I've copied (hopefully!) the attached images from Watchblog.dk. I'm not an expert so can't speak for the accuracy of the content. The first four dials are what most of us would recognise as the usual ones for a white 1680.

The other image is of what the author states is a luminova service dial. Yours is not luminova but clearly has impressive paperwork showing regular servicing. The font on your dial appears to have a similar narrow spacing between 600ft the = sign and 200m. I wonder if it is a Tritium service dial.

You are right about a 58 serial number being out of the general range of 76/77 serial numbers but they are after all only a guide.

No doubt those with far more knowledge will be able to provide a more accurate assessment of the dial and I'm happy to be corrected and learn.

Whether it is a Tritium service dial or not that is a lovely white 1680 and it sounds like a very comprehensive set of paperwork including original receipt.

[MitchSteel]

.

[MitchSteel]

I'm no expert, but your Sub looks Tip Top to meCongrats
Mine says Hi, from the same batch
http://

[Guitarfan]

Thanks guys :)

If it's a replacement dial it would have been fitted in one of those service years. I have a '93 Omega Speedmaster with lovely aged tritium dial/hands so the Rolex service dial could easily have been fitted as late as '95 and still aged as it has.

However...

My watch also seems to have the original bezel insert, which I would have thought would have been replaced by Rolex at some point in its service history as it shows wear and the tritium pearl is long gone and has been replaced by a luminova equivalent. Why not replace the whole bezel insert when fitting a new dial/hands? The original owner had the bracelet replaced as the clasp had broken at service in '95, but the dealer I bought the watch from did not mention any known changes to the dial/hands.

I've seen a few other examples of this dial, so I'm wondering whether this one is in fact an alternative original?

[stevedssd]

Mine has the dial third from left in the row of four above.

Yours is a lovely example and hopefully one of the more knowledgeable members will be able to shed some more light on the dial and the other issues you raised. A great first post and welcome to the forum :)

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Steve!

Regarding the reference number, I think this was just the dealer's stock number. It's written on the guarantee papers in place of the watch serial number, which is a little odd I guess, but I suppose these things were done back in the day.

My own guess on the serial number is that a large number of cases were made in the mid-seventies. Some were held back as replacements and the rest used fairly randomly - probably whatever came to hand in the factory. The build date of the watch is definitely 1975 based on the original sales receipt.

As for the dial, I guess it could be original or a service replacement. However, given that the watch was very well looked after I'd be surprised if it would have needed a replacement dial so early in its life...

[springer]

Nice Sub Guitarfan. If you look at the photo of the five dials, the last one is a service dial which appears to be the one on your watch. Enjoy that beauty.

jP

[Guitarfan]

Thanks JP, but I believe that last dial is a luminova dial (you can see the green-ish white colour in the markers) and is probably marked 'SWISS'. Mine is 'SWISS - T<25' and is definitely very old tritium. That service dial also seems to have open 6s? Mine are definitely closed.

I guess the same supplier could have produced tritium dials (with closed 6s) and then switched to luminova with open 6s? Sounds a bit of a stretch to me though.

The red sub service dial has the same f and = spacing, but also has open 6s and is definitely luminova. I would say the red and white service dials were made by the same people but I'm not so sure about my dial.....

[Guitarfan]

Cheers JP, but that service dial is definitely luminova (you can see the green in the bright white) and will probably be marked 'SWISS'. Mine is definitely old discoloured tritium and marked 'SWISS - T<25'. Also, mine has closed 6s.

The red sub luminova service dials I've seen images of, and the white service dial above, match perfectly so they're definitely from the same supplier and are later service replacements.

Mine I'm not so sure about....

[springer]

Some of service luminova dials had the swiss t 25 markings. Definitely service. Look at the dial coronets. Service dials had a distinct coronet. Also look at how the fonts line up. Your fonts line up like the service dials.

[marcello pisani]

5.8 million range , then your watch has been produced at the end of 1978 , so the sale receipt from 1976 is really very odd ...
if you want a confirmation of this info please ask to a Rolex Authorised Dealer to check his copy of internal Rolex tables.
by the way I suggest to take off the bracelet and read with a loupe the case number that is engraved at 6 ( when you have the winding crown on the right ).

[Guitarfan]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

5.8 million range , then your watch has been produced at the end of 1978 , so the sale receipt from 1976 is really very odd ...
if you want a confirmation of this info please ask to a Rolex Authorised Dealer to check his copy of internal Rolex tables.

The watch was bought from the original owner who purchased it in January 1976 (I have the receipt) so it's definitely 1975 or earlier. Unless the watch had a case replacement at service in 1979? Unfortunately the guarantee paperwork does not have the watch serial on it, just the dealer reference number.

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

by the way I suggest to take off the bracelet and read with a loupe the case number that is engraved at 6 ( when you have the winding crown on the right ).

No need for a loupe - the serial number is sharp and crystal clear. It's 580xxxx - definitely 5.8million.

[Guitarfan]

Originally Posted by marcello pisani

our Special Agent in Dallas is right : the dial belongs to the 2nd series of replacement dials for " white " 1680 made by Beyeler with luminova ( end of the 90s -early 2000s )

That's very interesting, as my dial and hands do not glow at all (absolutely nothing) and the luminous material has yellowed to a light mustard colour. Surely luminova would not age like this in the time from 1995 or 2002 when it was possibly replaced?

[Guitarfan]

Sorry for some of my double posts too - I think as a newbie the posts with images in are having to be approved by a moderator. Apologies!

[Vincent65]

Aside from the dial debate, I already thought that maybe the case was replaced, as you suggest, but if it was bought it from the original owner, surely he would know whether it was? Same for the dial?

Edit - just re-read your first post, which says you bought it from a dealer... who bought it from the original owner. I think the answers to your queries may lie therein.

[Guitarfan]

The dealer I bought it from is very knowledgeable and highly respected, I do not think for a second that they have done anything other than buy the watch and subsequently sell it to me.

I can't see any way that the dial is or was ever luminova, and the same for the hands.

My watch could be the twin of this one, except my guarantee paperwork is a little different. They seem to think it's an early service replacement dial rather than a later one?

http://10pastten.com/inventory/detai...?item_id=TA671

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

The watch was bought from the original owner who purchased it in January 1976 (I have the receipt) so it's definitely 1975 or earlier. Unless the watch had a case replacement at service in 1979? Unfortunately the guarantee paperwork does not have the watch serial on it, just the dealer reference number.



No need for a loupe - the serial number is sharp and crystal clear. It's 580xxxx - definitely 5.8million.

then the watch has been produced in 1978 : I'm 100 % sure ( as I have myself a copy of these internal tables mentioned above ).
so there is something strange in your receipt .
about replacement case : well in 1978 Rolex was using another batch of case numbers for cases replaced ( the range is also present in the above mentioned tables ).
however I suggest you to check also the inside of the back to see if there is an engraving of a service that mentions the replacement of the case.
about the dial : in any case it's a later replacement one no matter if it glows or not.

[marcello pisani]

would be to see all the documents ( sale receipt / original guarantee and so on ) .
another very unusual point here is the lack of the case number in the " guarantee paperwork " .. never seen something like this before ....
probably the best choice would be to bring watch and documents to Bexley ( Rolex UK branch ) and ask them to check everything ....
including case and reference numbers between the lugs

[Guitarfan]

Thanks Marcello. I believe inside the case back are the Rolex London service markings and dates, along with a 5 or 6 digit reference number (the service references?) I have not seen the case back myself but I have the information written on it.

So, I definitely have a replaced dial/hands/crystal/bracelet and what seems to be a non-original case. The receipt paperwork does not give a serial number, but the reference number matches the guarantee. The dealer I purchased the watch from told me he wrote a cheque out to the name on the receipt when he bought it - i.e. the original owner.

All this, added to the incorrect endlinks on the watch (very odd for a Rolex serviced watch?) are making we suspicious. Or am I being paranoid?

[marcello pisani]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Thanks Marcello. I believe inside the case back are the Rolex London service markings and dates, along with a 5 or 6 digit reference number (the service references?) I have not seen the case back myself but I have the information written on it.

So, I definitely have a replaced dial/hands/crystal/bracelet and what seems to be a non-original case. The receipt paperwork does not give a serial number, but the reference number matches the guarantee. The dealer I purchased the watch from told me he wrote a cheque out to the name on the receipt when he bought it - i.e. the original owner.

All this, added to the incorrect endlinks on the watch (very odd for a Rolex serviced watch?) are making we suspicious. Or am I being paranoid?

either the pristine or a replaced one but without pictures it's impossible to say !
really the best thing to do is bring the watch to Bexley ( as they can also check where the case number of your watch has been sold and when )

[Guitarfan]

Here's the paperwork I have, I have covered the name/address of the original owner on the receipt but hopefully you can see the odd reference number is consistent and the dates match. The watch was bought in the January (deposit left?) and the guarantee filled out a month later (when the watch was collected?)

[Guitarfan]

The plot thickens. The guarantee is "Small Garantie Version 572.01.250" found with case numbers between 2M and 4.5M according to this site:

http://www.rolexephemera.com/Guarant...ers-master.htm

And only for non-chronometers such as the 5513 and Daytona (scroll to the bottom):

http://www.rolexephemera.com/gmt-Guarantees.htm

[laphroaig007]

All documents looks fine with same writing.
So your 1680 might just have service parts.
Congrats !

[Guitarfan]

Yes, it's definitely a matching set - the same stamp has been used for the dealer and the writing is the same.

No chronometer certificate though and I don't have any of the boxes either.

Everything just seems to be a little odd - part of the charm of 38 years of history?

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

The dealer I bought it from is very knowledgeable and highly respected, I do not think for a second that they have done anything other than buy the watch and subsequently sell it to me.

I can't see any way that the dial is or was ever luminova, and the same for the hands.

My watch could be the twin of this one, except my guarantee paperwork is a little different. They seem to think it's an early service replacement dial rather than a later one?

http://10pastten.com/inventory/detai...?item_id=TA671

No, I meant that they may be able to give you, or now get, more info from the original owner, who should know if the dial/case or anything else were replaced, I'd imagine.

[Guitarfan]

Ah - I see! I asked if the dial and hands were the originals when I bought the watch and the dealer thought so. I think I'd have to ask the dealer to contact the original owner again to get any more information, and I suppose that would be unlikely to happen.

I'm sure they would have asked the seller at the time about replacement parts and they may not even know what was replaced - they probably just sent the watch in for service and let Rolex do what needed to be done.

I'm very curious as to why the dial and hands would be swapped but never the bezel insert. That just doesn't make sense to me as on a serviced watch with a case polish and new crystal it would stand out a mile!

It's all very interesting...

[springer]

The Garantie certificate is incorrect for your watch and was discontinued during the early 1970's. Also, as you suspected, it is a non-chronometer certificate or Rolex Garantie which was not used on chronometer watches - i.e. your 1680 Submariner.

Also, the Montre NO is the serial number. Your serial has the handwritten serial number of 15H A830/73 which is not a serial number.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Guitarfan

Ah - I see! I asked if the dial and hands were the originals when I bought the watch and the dealer thought so. I think I'd have to ask the dealer to contact the original owner again to get any more information, and I suppose that would be unlikely to happen.

I'm sure they would have asked the seller at the time about replacement parts and they may not even know what was replaced - they probably just sent the watch in for service and let Rolex do what needed to be done.

I'm very curious as to why the dial and hands would be swapped but never the bezel insert. That just doesn't make sense to me as on a serviced watch with a case polish and new crystal it would stand out a mile!

It's all very interesting...

The insert probably didn't need replacing - so it was left alone.