Is vintage ever a good deal?

[Rob519]

So I've been looking for a good deal on a vintage Rolex sports watch, and the Explorer II 16570 Polar with tritium is a top contender (under $4500 and because I think it's cool).

Here's the problem...

I could buy a newer 16570 with less worries about accuracy or condition for about the same price. Also, the added benefits of lume and better clasp bracelet with SEL. However, arguably not as unique (without patina or age).

So how is vintage ever a good deal? If you want the watch to be all original, you're going to avoid servicing. Yes it's cool, but for the same amount of money you get better reliability/accuracy. Especially, if you plan on keeping it for life.

Would love to hear the community's thoughts on this. Not trying to be combative, as I totally get the coolness factor of something really old/historical. Just having a hard time justifying the long term value.

[Vincent65]

Long-term, vintage will hold its value better than a new one. As with cars or anything else new, once it leaves the showroom, the market value has already dropped considerably.
Nothing's guaranteed of course, with regards to vintage values increasing or holding, but the first statement is guaranteed. New = loss. Usually.

[Rob519]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Long-term, vintage will hold its value better than a new one. As with cars or anything else new, once it leaves the showroom, the market value has already dropped considerably.
Nothing's guaranteed of course, with regards to vintage values increasing or holding, but the first statement is guaranteed. New = loss. Usually.

Ya, but I'm comparing newer(pre-owned) vs vintage. I don't see how vintage is ever smart. Especially, if you plan on wearing it a lot.

Unless maybe if you're locking it in a safe and hoping its really rare one day.

[lis]

I see your point and am struggling with it. But there's something very sweet about having the first version of the particular watch. Plus with vintage thee can be some looks the newer ones don't replicate. But if you don't have the urge for vintage, then a new one is your best bet - because in General, I don't think buying a watch as an "investment" makes sense - buy it because you love it and then hope that it will be a good investment, but don't make that your first thought. Just my feelings on this.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by Rob519

Ya, but I'm comparing newer(pre-owned) vs vintage. I don't see how vintage is ever smart. Especially, if you plan on wearing it a lot.

Unless maybe if you're locking it in a safe and hoping its really rare one day.

Well, you've got your own answer then! Maybe it isn't smart. I wear mine all the time, and, if anything, the value has risen since I bought them. Never seen a safe. Go figure...

[steptoe]

Originally Posted by Rob519

Ya, but I'm comparing newer(pre-owned) vs vintage. I don't see how vintage is ever smart. Especially, if you plan on wearing it a lot.

Unless maybe if you're locking it in a safe and hoping its really rare one day.

I wear my double red seadweller all day every day

And you can have a vintage watch serviced without compromising it's value or originality

I'd do a bit more research if i were you.

[locutus49]

It comes down to why you buy watches. I buy to enjoy wearing and don't want to worry about every scratch or nick. I buy stocks to invest, and watches to wear.

So why do you buy?

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by Rob519

Ya, but I'm comparing newer(pre-owned) vs vintage. I don't see how vintage is ever smart. Especially, if you plan on wearing it a lot.

Unless maybe if you're locking it in a safe and hoping its really rare one day.

U r looking at the wrong watch. I dont consider 16570 vintage. Try looking for reference like 5513 or 1675 n compare the price between last n this year, then u will see. If u take care of them, vintage will last as long as "newer" rolex.


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[bdex75]

I own no vintage Rolex, yet. I find the patina and the small imperfections give the watch character. The trouble that I have with vintage is that I am not yet enough of an expert to be able to pick a good one from a bad one and I am afraid to make an expensive mistake. I know what I like and I can see the difference between patina on hands and dial knowing what lume has been re-done and what dials are service dials and what original is where I get hung up. I am learning and will eventually join the vintage camp.

As far as "worth it" goes, that depends. From a pure investment standpoint you are probably better buying stocks or bonds or mutual funds. But to enjoy your investment while it could appreciate is pretty unique.


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[Rob519]

Thanks for all of the replies guys! Let me reiterate, I totally get the cool/unique factor. I also understand that it's never wrong to like a specific watch because it's a very personal experience. I have a 34mm Air King that I will never sell (and yet some people might not like it due to it's smaller size). While I would disagree with their opinion, I still think its interesting to pose questions of preference and arguments to justify those preferences. I don't consider watches purely as an investment, but Rolex holding it's value definitely contributes to my passion for the brand.

Also, I really should clarify... I think most Rolex watches are great deals. New, lightly used, or vintage. I'm just trying to compare the lifetime value of purchasing a vintage watch to a lightly pre-owned watch. Seems like buying vintage right now is a bit of an unnecessary premium. Especially, if you buy a great watch lightly used, keep it nice, then it becomes vintage one day. Not only do you pay a premium for vintage now, but you also risk frankenwatches, less accuracy, etc.

If you can truly verify everything, I guess it can make sense. But you are still more likely to run into problems with a watch made 30 years ago vs 10 years ago. Then you will have to get it fixed without replacing original parts (to hold the vintage factor).

[AS1]

I think the people who bought PN Daytonas for less than $10K in the late 90s are probably pretty happy!

[omitohud]

I disagree Rob as would other collectors of vintage cars, stamps, musical instruments, etc. remember the newer produced rolex might never become vintage. No matter how cool the newer watches r, they r just a tribute of the classics they replace. I doubt the price of new watches will catch up ever with the appreciation value of the vintage watches. Of course it depends on the model. Just my 2 cents.


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[Rob519]

Originally Posted by AS1

I think the people who bought PN Daytonas for less than $10K in the late 90s are probably pretty happy!

Ya, but you cant really predict that kind of value down the road. You can only buy with the information you know now. So it should go back to buying your favorite watch for the money I guess.

So in my case... Rolex Explorer II 16570 Polar tritium vs. 16570 lume, clasp, SEL etc. all outweighs patina. But I guess like someone said before, 16570 isnt really a good example of vintage.

[Rob519]

Originally Posted by omitohud

I disagree Rob as would other collectors of vintage cars, stamps, musical instruments, etc. remember the newer produced rolex might never become vintage. No matter how cool the newer watches r, they r just a tribute of the classics they replace. I doubt the price of new watches will catch up ever with the appreciation value of the vintage watches. Of course it depends on the model. Just my 2 cents.


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Valid point. I didnt think about it like that. Thanks.

[locutus49]

I would love to own a vintage Sub but I just don't know enough about the details to risk buying one that I can afford.

If I win the lotto, I will buy one through a trusted TRF dealer (and buy drinks for all TRF members).

More realistically, if it came down to a choice between a Platinum daytona and a vintage Sub, I would go for the Platona because I would wear it everyday and not worry about it.

[motoikkyu]

I don't know if this is simple or complicated. Everyone is different. Trying to decide between a 5513 vs. the 14060, I knew I wanted the white-gold surrounds on the hour markers, but I preferred the acrylic crystal. So, my choice was the 5513 and it was a good deal (bought from a forum member here) because it was one of the later ones with the gold surrounds, which are not desirable in the 5513.

Buy what pleases you at a gut level. This is not a minor purchase, there is too much money involved, but that does NOT make it an investment. Assume that in thirty years NO one except extreme geriatrics such as myself will be wearing wristwatches. They will be archaic, an affectation, the way pocket watches are today. At the same time, the technology to repair watches will probably have continued to improve. So the curmudgeons like me, and yourself at that point, will still be able to keep our dinosaurs running.

[swish77]

What about the simple enjoyment and warmth of wearing a vintage Rolex? That's very valuable. It can't be boiled down to whether it's a better investment than buying a newer watch. If you have a vintage watch that you enjoy every time you look at it, it's worth every penny. But I love old stuff: vintage cars, guitars, mid-century furniture, etc ... Some people don't enjoy vintage as much, and that's why they still make new watches.

[Rob519]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

I don't know if this is simple or complicated. Everyone is different. Trying to decide between a 5513 vs. the 14060, I knew I wanted the white-gold surrounds on the hour markers, but I preferred the acrylic crystal. So, my choice was the 5513 and it was a good deal (bought from a forum member here) because it was one of the later ones with the gold surrounds, which are not desirable in the 5513.

Buy what pleases you at a gut level. This is not a minor purchase, there is too much money involved, but that does NOT make it an investment. Assume that in thirty years NO one except extreme geriatrics such as myself will be wearing wristwatches. They will be archaic, an affectation, the way pocket watches are today. At the same time, the technology to repair watches will probably have continued to improve. So the curmudgeons like me, and yourself at that point, will still be able to keep our dinosaurs running.

Haha, I love this. Nice summary, but I choose to believe that mechanical watches will have a future. I have some faith left in my generation. :)

[Floorguy]

Long stroy short. First I DO NOT consider a 16750 vintage! If you need to be convinced to by vintage, you really don't want one. Jmo.

[MP5]

Originally Posted by Floorguy

Long stroy short. First I DO NOT consider a 16750 vintage! If you need to be convinced to by vintage, you really don't want one. Jmo.

This. It doesn't seem for you man. You aren't even looking at vintage and you are having issues justifying.

[high5]

check out auction houses' records online. they will give you an idea how vintage watches performs in term of price increase. check 5513 vs 14060, 1680 vs 16610, 1665 vs 16600, 1655 vs 16570, 1675 vs 16710, 1016 vs 114270. The differences in price appreciation between vintage and contemporary over time are huge. If you get a good condition example with same period parts, you are pretty much safe in value.

If you really like a 16570, get one with dial surface change to creamy color, not just the markers.

[Rob519]

Originally Posted by high5

check out auction houses' records online. they will give you an idea how vintage watches performs in term of price increase. check 5513 vs 14060, 1680 vs 16610, 1665 vs 16600, 1655 vs 16570, 1675 vs 16710, 1016 vs 114270. The differences in price appreciation between vintage and contemporary over time are huge. If you get a good condition example with same period parts, you are pretty much safe in value.

If you really like a 16570, get one with dial surface change to creamy color, not just the markers.

Do you have any examples of the 16570 youre talking about? I don't think I've seen any with dial change. Unless youre referring to the 16550 with cream dial, which goes for around 15-20k. Thanks.

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by Rob519

Do you have any examples of the 16570 youre talking about? I don't think I've seen any with dial change. Unless youre referring to the 16550 with cream dial, which goes for around 15-20k. Thanks.

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[clock]

It took me several years to enjoy and appreciate vintage watches.
It's an interesting journey at learning and hunting for the best example of a specific model one can afford.

I prefer the looks of a matte dial, crème patina of dial/hands and plastic crystal over modern Rolex models.

[clock]

[springer]

Vintage is risky and personally, I would not own anything vintage. Buy new or "slightly used" and you'll be on your way .

[Rob519]

Originally Posted by omitohud

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Wow, that's beautiful. I've never seen one like that in the 16570. I'll be on the lookout.

The 5513 is also awesome. But I don't think I'm going to find any under $4500.


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[Tools]

Originally Posted by springer

Vintage is risky and personally, I would not own anything vintage. Buy new or "slightly used" and you'll be on your way .

I agree with this..

I enjoyed collecting for many years and they were great to look at. But with many vintage that's all you can do without risking a large cost for an accident..

I've gotten rid of most all vintage and still have enough to enjoy wearing any of them without fear of damage..

[Clay]

Originally Posted by tools

i enjoyed collecting for many years and they were great to look at. But with many vintage that's all you can do without risking a large cost for an accident..

I've gotten rid of most all vintage and still have enough to enjoy wearing any of them without fear of damage..

[clock]

Originally Posted by springer

Vintage is risky and personally, I would not own anything vintage. Buy new or "slightly used" and you'll be on your way .

I'm surprised you would not recommend vintage if bought from one of the trusted sellers, such as yourself.

Since the OP seems undecided about vintage, buying a mint condition modern Rolex at market price is a good deal. If he decides to flip the watch probably won't lose, depending on the model.