Looking for your expert opinions on this 5512

[Keldw]

Dear members,

As the title suggests, I´m considering purchasing a 5512. I´ve never made a purchase of this kind without having the watch in my hands, so I´m hoping some of you knowledgeable people will weigh ind with your opinion?

Its a 1967 model with serial number : 1600647

The innerside of the caseback says 5513? Is this a worry and does it overall look a-okay?

Price is set at 12,500 USD.

Thanks in advance

[Keldw]

More pics

[Keldw]

And one more.

Thank you in advance

[toneafficianado]

Shouldnt an old no date sub have two lines not 4 on the dial?

[Keldw]

I think the older ones is 2 lines only, not quite sure when the change was made to 4?

[Keldw]

Supposedly the two MF dials corresponds correct with 1.6x mil- 2.x mil serial

[toneafficianado]

I think the change to 4 was during the era of the 14060M which woukd make this a fake dial at least.

[Keldw]

I know that reading a thread on the web does´nt make anything definite

But stumbled upon this thread http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...512+Maxi+dials

[Keldw]

And thanks for weighing in, I truly appreciate it

[toneafficianado]

No worries. Thank YOU for that link. Looks like Im wrong. A few 5512s on there have cour lines. Im absolutely not an expert though. I have a 14060m 2008 and did research only in that model before purchasing it last year. Two line versions of them command a bit of a premium. Bet some experts will chime in to help you soon.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by toneafficianado

Shouldnt an old no date sub have two lines not 4 on the dial?

Originally Posted by Keldw

I think the older ones is 2 lines only, not quite sure when the change was made to 4?

Originally Posted by toneafficianado

I think the change to 4 was during the era of the 14060M which woukd make this a fake dial at least.

No, its a 5512 NOT a 5513. Read this:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=199116

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by toneafficianado

I think the change to 4 was during the era of the 14060M which woukd make this a fake dial at least.

No, the 5512 was four lines, chrono certified.

[brandrea]

Interesting' the dial is a 5512 and the case back, 5513. Maybe this is common .... Where is Marcello? I'm sure the experts will chime in.

It does seem like a lot of money.

[danyvw]

Earliest versions don't have it but third gen 5512 has 4 lines.

[Keldw]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Interesting' the dial is a 5512 and the case back, 5513. Maybe this is common .... Where is Marcello? I'm sure the experts will chime in.

It does seem like a lot of money.

Im hoping for Marcello to join in as well

It´s a big chunk of cash, but it comes with all papers and box

[nsumner]

The dial is correct for the serial provided and looks good. The case looks pretty thin, evidenced by the side lug view. The case backs were interchangeable for the entire run of 5512/5513, so this one appears correct. The insert is a much much later version. It's hard to comment on price, not knowing the market in your country.

[Keldw]

This a quite a nifty timetable I just saw

[brandrea]

Marcello was a big help to me when I bought mine, a 1967 5513
You could always send him a PM with these pics. He's a great guy, and one of the most knowledgable here

[Keldw]

Originally Posted by nsumner

The dial is correct for the serial provided and looks good. The case looks pretty thin, evidenced by the side lug view. The case backs were interchangeable for the entire run of 5512/5513, so this one appears correct. It's hard to comment on price, not knowing the market in your country.

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated

I actually have´nt seen a single 5512 i Denmark for sale..ever.

In comparrison, I paid 6,5 USD (in danish though) for my 5513 without b/p

[mluther]

Originally Posted by toneafficianado

I think the change to 4 was during the era of the 14060M which woukd make this a fake dial at least.

That is a pretty reckless statement to make.

As has been clarified this is a non-glit 5512 4 liner. Agree with inter changeable case backs. Case is very soft. Bracelet seems period correct with a healthy amount of stretch.

Dial and hands look good - I've just a bought a 1680 with a similar colour patina.

You need to look closely at the B&P's too to make sure all is in order.

The insert is not even close. Should be a long 5 for the mid sixties. I would consider the one on the watch to be very odd - looks like a thin font and I've never seen one with fade. I would consider this in the negotiation. I wouldn't pay more than $100 for that insert, whereas a long 5 with a nice fade would be at least 10x that.

This link will give you more insight re inserts:

http://rolex.watchprosite.com/show-f...1-through-mk3/

A few 1.6mill examples in the VRF dial archive:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/53956...sted+by+timlua

They are relatively rare, so not that easy to pass on when they come up. Personally, I would wait for a better example - but that could be a long wait

[Keldw]

Originally Posted by mluther

That is a pretty reckless statement to make.

As has been clarified this is a non-glit 5512 4 liner. Agree with inter changeable case backs. Case is very soft. Bracelet seems period correct with a healthy amount of stretch.

Dial and hands look good - I've just a bought a 1680 with a similar colour patina.

You need to look closely at the B&P's too to make sure all is in order.

The insert is not even close. Should be a long 5 for the mid sixties. I would consider the one on the watch to be very odd - looks like a thin font and I've never seen one with fade. I would consider this in the negotiation. I wouldn't pay more than $100 for that insert, whereas a long 5 with a nice fade would be at least 10x that.

This link will give you more insight re inserts:

http://rolex.watchprosite.com/show-f...1-through-mk3/

A few 1.6mill examples in the VRF dial archive:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/53956...sted+by+timlua

They are relatively rare, so not that easy to pass on when they come up. Personally, I would wait for a better example - but that could be a long wait

Thank you for the excellent feedback. Truly why I love this forum.

Seller did state that it´s a service insert. Guess I could live with that.

I dunno, after reading your reply I think I might just wait it out.

I do have pics of the paper work

[Keldw]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Marcello was a big help to me when I bought mine, a 1967 5513
You could always send him a PM with these pics. He's a great guy, and one of the most knowledgable here

I think I respect that guy too much to just PM him :

[jdmi32]

Dial looks ok to me. Case as already mentioned has had some aggressive and poor polishing. It's entirely normal to have that case back on a 5512 and from my experience 5513 stamped case backs are less common than the 5512 stamped ones.

[bondtoys]

I don't like the lugs on this particular watch.
They have been polished down to a degree so that the springbarends almost peek out of the lugholes (particularly at 10 and 5).

For me a no-go

Additionally - but I am not an expert - the greenish lume worries me.

[cajuntiger]

a bit late, but as others have stated a 5512 has 4 lines not 2. Only the very early 5512's have 2 lines. The casebook engraved 5513 is very common. The insert is from the 80's and was replaced, and the case has seen a good bit of polishing. Way over priced IMO...it seems like you are paying an excessive premium for paperwork.
BTW- Its a good looking piece, just way over priced for the condition.

For this kind of money you should be able to find a much better example. Here is an unpolished example for reference.

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

I don't like the lugs on this particular watch.
They have been polished down to a degree so that the springbarends almost peek out of the lugholes (particularly at 10 and 5).

For me a no-go

Additionally - but I am not an expert - the greenish lume worries me.

BTW- greenish lume is typical for a 1967...it should still glow briefly too.
I wouldn't look at the spring bars as a reference to over polishing...they could simple be the wrong ones.

[Keldw]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

BTW- greenish lume is typical for a 1967...it should still glow briefly too.
I wouldn't look at the spring bars as a reference to over polishing...they could simple be the wrong ones.

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

a bit late, but as others have stated a 5512 has 4 lines not 2. Only the very early 5512's have 2 lines. The casebook engraved 5513 is very common. The insert is from the 80's and was replaced, and the case has seen a good bit of polishing. Way over priced IMO...it seems like you are paying an excessive premium for paperwork.
BTW- Its a good looking piece, just way over priced for the condition.

For this kind of money you should be able to find a much better example. Here is an unpolished example for reference.

Originally Posted by jdmi32

Dial looks ok to me. Case as already mentioned has had some aggressive and poor polishing. It's entirely normal to have that case back on a 5512 and from my experience 5513 stamped case backs are less common than the 5512 stamped ones.

Im astonished by your wisdom and wiilngness to share it. Highly appreciated.

Seems you guys have me convinced to sit this one over

[Beaumont Miller II]

The early versions of the 5512 with a gilt gloss dial from the early '60s sometimes had 2 lines of text. The watch you are considering from '67 has a meters first matte dial with 4 lines of text. The extra 2 lines of SCOC text below the depth rating indicate that this is a 5512 and not a 5513. Of interest the mk1 dial has the "SWISS T < 25" at the bottom of the dial across 5 tics rather than 3 tics, characteristic of the less common mk2 matte 5512 dial.

It's no big deal to have a 5513 case back on a 5512 midcase. It happens all the time.

The insert as has been correctly pointed out is not period correct for the watch.

The watch has been poorly polished in the past, likely several times. I would avoid this watch for those reasons. It's difficult to determine how much the paper work adds to the value of the set, as this will differ between collectors with different preferences.

[Keldw]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

a bit late, but as others have stated a 5512 has 4 lines not 2. Only the very early 5512's have 2 lines. The casebook engraved 5513 is very common. The insert is from the 80's and was replaced, and the case has seen a good bit of polishing. Way over priced IMO...it seems like you are paying an excessive premium for paperwork.
BTW- Its a good looking piece, just way over priced for the condition.

For this kind of money you should be able to find a much better example. Here is an unpolished example for reference.

Very nice example you´re posting there! Would love to end up with something like that!

[toneafficianado]

I have learned so much from this thread too. Appreciate it.