possible red sub purchase ....info please !

[Hollywoodvillain]

im sorry to do this ! i have read everything i can find on these red subs today and i am confident that when i have the watch in question in my hands again i will be able to get a much better idea of originality and value but for right now i am just fishing for pricing knowledge that i don't already have and despite my efforts today can't really seem to find !

i will need to make an offer to acquire this watch ! the current owner bought it about 15 to 20 years ago for 1500.00 dollars (he cant remember for sure when) he bought a 1675 GMT at the same time for 1200.00 which i may work on him for after i get the sub !

i know this thread needs pics and i will get them as soon as i can ! :) i would have waited for the pics to start the thread but i am too excited to know more about this potential purchase !

the watch in question is a late 60's early 2 mill serial number red 1680

it is a meters first dial and as i am told it is original .( it does have a slight brownish tint to it in the sunlight ) i guess it will be mark I II or III from what i read today . the tritium markers are a nice shade of pale yellow and are a little puffy but not too bad , the edges are just showing a little bit of white under them where the lume might have worn off the edges just a little bit . he sent it to RSC a few years ago and shockingly they did not replace or rework the dial or hands he said ! . he said he can't remember if they did anything with the case back but he did not think so ! the bezel insert is likely a service insert and the pearl in it is much newer and does not match any other patina . ! the insert itself is barely faded black i do not think the font was fat as it seemed very skinny to me ! . the bezel itself was like new and not worn at all ( teeth were nice and crisp ) so i suppose they may have replaced that too but i am not sure (he did not mention that) . it has a modern 93150 bracelet on it and i am not sure what end links but i assume newer 501b's or 580's maybe. obviously i am not giving enough info for anyone to give me a etched in stone value ,but all i really need is a minimum value to start at and see where it goes from there . i threw around figures in the 7 k range and he seemed receptive to that amount and is considering selling it to me !

lets say for value purposes that it was a feet first service dial for minimum value sake , with service insert and pearl , late model bracelet , polished case , no paperwork , accessories or history documentation and aftermarket dome crystal . what would it be worth ?? i am strictly looking for a ballpark figure . i saw some listed at 7500 ish and some listed in the 25k range so i know its somewhere in there but that is a wide spread . am i safe to assume that it is worth at least 7 k regardless of which dial is in it as long as all of the parts are authentic for any era red sub and the dial had red paint from Rolex . keep in mind i want to wear this watch , not throw it in a safe . i will need it to pass a pressure test as i will swim and probably shower with it on . he says that it passed when it came back from RSC and has no reason to believe it would not pass now !

thanx to those of you that know for whatever info you have ! i appreciate the knowledge and experience that the members here have !

[Elle84]

Sorry but is too hard to help you without some pics.

Mark can be I, II or III and prices changes, from 7k to 14k.

Unluckly is not enough for me to help you, have a look to the website doubleredseadweller, it is really usefull.

Best will be the book Rolex Submariner Story.

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by Elle84

Sorry but is too hard to help you without some pics.

Mark can be I, II or III and prices changes, from 7k to 14k.

Unluckly is not enough for me to help you, have a look to the website doubleredseadweller, it is really usefull.

Best will be the book Rolex Submariner Story.

Thanx I have a few Rolex reference books and I spent hours on the DRSD website ! You've basically told me what I want to know ! If I pay 7 and it turns out to be the least desirable scenario , aside from fake red , I am still in a decent position financially ! I am planning on seeing this watch again soon and this time I will be prepared to look it over with a bit more knowledge of what I'm looking for !

Thanx and as soon as I get pics I'll post them here !

Jp

[Elle84]

Yeah paying it 7k can be safe (more or less) but only if everything is original, Case, Bezel, Bracelet and also the dial, even if it is a forniture, but in the case the dial as been refinished (or fake) you risk to pay too much, cause only a dial will be very expensive and hard to find.

The watch following what i read must look like this one.



Any help will be appreciated, if i made a mistake.

[JJL]

$7k for a meters first (potentially tropical brown) Red Sub??!

Am I missing something?

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by JJL

$7k for a meters first (potentially tropical brown) Red Sub??!

Am I missing something?

Nope not missing anything except pics and an incoming thread ! I'm not sure I'll get it for that amount for sure , it's just a number we threw around ! And I'm not sure at this time that it's all original tropical red meters first either ! Could be altered although it's doubtful ! The current owner has owned 100's of Rolex watches and has had this one for at least 15 years maybe longer , But has only really dealt with modern pieces for the last decade ! I have my fingers crossed and potential value isn't really a major factor as it will likely be a keeper for me , but I'm by no means wealthy and I need to sell one or two to get it so I need to make sure I won't regret it !

[George Spring]

wow if you get this watch try open the case back and see if the movement is legit. i have a friend in new york who paid $6k just for a markI dial without anything elese

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by George Spring

wow if you get this watch try open the case back and see if the movement is legit. i have a friend in new york who paid $6k just for a markI dial without anything elese

It is legit and all Rolex as it was serviced a few years ago through RSC . I just don't know if there are more service parts than original parts on it . I looked at 25 + watches while I was at his place and to say I was a little flustered is an understatement ! I was eying his 1675 more and really only looked quickly at the red sub as I didn't think he'd sell it ! It was already put away by the time we talked about it so I may be off on my memory ! I'm going to call him and maybe swing over to his place within a day or two to take some pics and get more info on it ! I don't even remember seeing the meters first but I do remember during the conversation he said he remembered a friend having one that had the feet first instead of meters like his ! And I do remember him saying it was a late 60's and 2.1 or 2.2 mill serial . And I remember the dial looking either matte or brownish compared to my 16610 while I was noticing with them side by side that the 1680 seemed smaller than my sub !

Pics as soon as I can guys , sorry !

[jdmi32]

Any correct Red Sub in decent condition for 7.5K is a great deal. A correct Red Sub in the 2.1 or 2.2 mil range for 7.5k would only happen in my dreams.

[George Spring]

Originally Posted by Hollywoodvillain

It is legit and all Rolex as it was serviced a few years ago through RSC . I just don't know if there are more service parts than original parts on it . I looked at 25 + watches while I was at his place and to say I was a little flustered is an understatement ! I was eying his 1675 more and really only looked quickly at the red sub as I didn't think he'd sell it ! It was already put away by the time we talked about it so I may be off on my memory ! I'm going to call him and maybe swing over to his place within a day or two to take some pics and get more info on it ! I don't even remember seeing the meters first but I do remember during the conversation he said he remembered a friend having one that had the feet first instead of meters like his ! And I do remember him saying it was a late 60's and 2.1 or 2.2 mill serial . And I remember the dial looking either matte or brownish compared to my 16610 while I was noticing with them side by side that the 1680 seemed smaller than my sub !

Pics as soon as I can guys , sorry !

at first i didnt like the red sub but later in life it kind of grows in my heart that im all drooling when i see one in my local ad. its sad though that i just cant afford one. if you can get that for $7k thats a dream price tag just like jdmi32 said

[Robbyvm]

when things are to good to be true... from a guy who owned 100's of Rolexes ... ?
but miracles do happen sometimes so i'm curious to see the pics !

[JJL]

Originally Posted by Robbyvm

when things are to good to be true... from a guy who owned 100's of Rolexes ... ?
but miracles do happen sometimes so i'm curious to see the pics !

That is my thought process as well. If the guy owns 100's, I'd imagine he knows that these 1680s go for much more than that, especially a meters first reference.

Who knows though? For the OP's sake, I hope everything is legit and original! The deal of a life time!

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by JJL

That is my thought process as well. If the guy owns 100's, I'd imagine he knows that these 1680s go for much more than that, especially a meters first reference.

Who knows though? For the OP's sake, I hope everything is legit and original! The deal of a life time!

He's owned 100's over the years , right now he has about 20 to 25 Rolex's and a handful of omegas and breitlings ! But in at least 10 maybe 12 years he has bought only modern watches and quit flipping and selling around the same time . When his investments are stale for a while he pulls a chunk out and buys a couple watches ! We all justify it somehow , that's his way , lol . Like I said he paid 1500 for it and is figuring 7 k is a decent number . If he sees this thread he might change his mind ! :o Lately he buys only modern references but pre owned to avoid initial hit ! He knows they are sought after but seemed to be ok at the figure we were toying with ! We'll see ! Maybe this will all fall apart but I have to try !

Thanx for the input guys !

[Hollywoodvillain]

Please Delete

[omitohud]

Good luck. If it is a legit meter first, the value of the dial alone if its in good shape is worth around ur asking price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by Hollywoodvillain

He's owned 100's over the years , right now he has about 20 to 25 Rolex's and a handful of omegas and breitlings ! But in at least 10 maybe 12 years he has bought only modern watches and quit flipping and selling around the same time . When his investments are stale for a while he pulls a chunk out and buys a couple watches ! We all justify it somehow , that's his way , lol . Like I said he paid 1500 for it and is figuring 7 k is a decent number . If he sees this thread he might change his mind ! :o Lately he buys only modern references but pre owned to avoid initial hit ! He knows they are sought after but seemed to be ok at the figure we were toying with ! We'll see ! Maybe this will all fall apart but I have to try !

Thanx for the input guys !

I hope this works out for you!
Everybody deserves a break (read steal ) in his life.
If he is happy with the price, and you are happy with the price...That's called a deal

Good luck!
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

[Hollywoodvillain]

I've caught a few breaks these last few years so i am hoping the streak continues .

unrelated deal

i bought a 1933 ford 5 wdw coupe a couple years ago for 4500 that someone hot rodded back in the late 40's and parked it in 49' / 50' where it sat untouched until i found it :) for some hot rodders that is as good or better than a deuce coupe !!! threw some brakes on it and another old hot rod flathead motor and took it down to the RACE OF GENTLEMEN and had a blast with it , I was offered $25,000 for it last fall as it sits, but i think its worth about 35k or more so i'm hanging onto it for now !

i'm really hoping this is a good deal for me although not nearly as lucrative ! i have my fingers crossed !!

[etp095]

Originally Posted by Hollywoodvillain

I've caught a few breaks these last few years so i am hoping the streak continues .

unrelated deal

i bought a 1933 ford 5 wdw coupe a couple years ago for 4500 that someone hot rodded back in the late 40's and parked it in 49' / 50' where it sat untouched until i found it :) for some hot rodders that is as good or better than a deuce coupe !!! threw some brakes on it and another old hot rod flathead motor and took it down to the RACE OF GENTLEMEN and had a blast with it , I was offered $25,000 for it last fall as it sits, but i think its worth about 35k or more so i'm hanging onto it for now !

i'm really hoping this is a good deal for me although not nearly as lucrative ! i have my fingers crossed !!

Good luck on that red sub, quite a deal for $7k. Let's see some pics of that 33 bard find, before& after please.

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by etp095

Good luck on that red sub, quite a deal for $7k. Let's see some pics of that 33 bard find, before& after please.

well since you asked !! ha ha
literally did motor swap , brakes , wheels and tires i had kicking around and scraped surface rust off it and off we went 7 weeks worth of weekends and a couple weeknights from before to after pics ! very little was changed from the way it was hot rodded in 49 . note the drilled suspension parts in the first pics . there is a crazy story about the axle involving a 17 year old kid on a 46 Indian motorcycle and a cross country adventure in 1947 that landed him at speed week in Wendover Nevada at the salt flats ! he bought and strapped the drilled I beam front axle to his back and rode that motorcycle back to Utica NY . the first piece of the hot rod was the axle , bought the car when he got back and commenced to building his own hot rod like the ones he saw out west . never finished it and 63 years later i had the chance to get it out on the beach in Wildwood NJ in october 2013 and race with a bunch of other period perfect hot rods

[Hollywoodvillain]

and then built this 29 roadster on deuce rails for the October 2014 Race of Gentlemen .

and to assure this is on topic i am wearing a DJ 16030 in the pic HA HA

[Hollywoodvillain]

ok so my memory sucks , i just got more info its a 2.8 mill serial 68 or 69 he thinks it said in the case back . its a feet first dial . does anyone see anything here i should be worried about ?? obviously not tropical MKI but still a very cool piece right ??

here is a pic of the watch he had in his phone . he will get me more later without hands in the way of text etc . the patina looked way darker in person too so the lighting here may throw ya off a little !

i don't want to steal this watch i want to get a nice piece at a fair price , i'm not gonna flip it so i just want he and i to both be happy with the deal !!

[AS1]

Huge disclaimer as not an expert at all - but they look like closed 6s no? Which I think makes it a Mk VI, where the serials are supposed to start at 3,xxx,xxx.

Others with greater knowledge than I shall surely weigh in.

[azguy]

Not a great pic, but the insert is newer, the hands appear newer and the red type looks a tad strange IMHO.

[AS1]

Excellent point about the red type, John. For example, looking at it closely, the "A" in "SUBMARINER" looks particularly odd. Very long and flat top, seems longer than other dials of any variety.

[Hollywoodvillain]

i was just leaning towards MK VI myself ! and serial is 2.86 so damn near 2.9 close to 3,0

i knew the insert was newer . wasn't sure about the hands . the watch was 30 years old when he bought it 15 + years ago ,so he is unsure of history before him !

i blew the pic up on my phone and snapped screenshots to get a closer look . crappy i phone quality but closer

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by AS1

Excellent point about the red type, John. For example, looking at it closely, the "A" in "SUBMARINER" looks particularly odd. Very long and flat top, seems longer than other dials of any variety.

i did notice the A and it seems the M is close to the B compared to other letters ??

[AS1]

Yeah, with the close-up I can say that the "SUBMARINER" looks like nothing I at least have seen before on a red sub.

The amount of serif on the "SUPERLATIVE CHRONOMETER OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED" also looks wrong to my eyes.

[etp095]

Justin
Thanks for the hot rod pics, nice looking rides. Tractor tires look really period correct. An axle strapped to the back, riding a motorcycle, incredible. I wonder where the indian wound up?

[Tudor66]

Well I like it, but I am no expert on RedSubs. If his GMT looks this good I would buy both then you will have the a very good pair of vintage watches.

In my case of obtaining a RedSub, I found a seller who was a collector who kept all of the papers, receipts and tags for his Red, so the buying process was a little easier for me. In the end the seller of my watch selected me because I was very interested in learning about his watches.

I'll let others chime in here, but I think you'll be posting an incoming RedSub thread soon...!

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by etp095

Justin
Thanks for the hot rod pics, nice looking rides. Tractor tires look really period correct. An axle strapped to the back, riding a motorcycle, incredible. I wonder where the indian wound up?

his son has the Indian but had no interest in the cars so i was able to swoop in and buy the coupe . he was asking 3000 and worked me up to 4500 before i convinced him i couldn't go any higher ! (i know that was a backwards deal huh) old man drove a hard bargain . bitter sweet deal though i promised him a ride in it and he passed away just before it was drivable ! i still feel crappy about that but i had his name and in Memory of lettered on the back of the car look him up if old race cars interest ya his name was Al "suicide" Sanders there are some stories about him on GOOGLE . good stuff !!!