my buddy has a vintage sub

[stevemulholland3]

Its a model 6536/1 and he says theres a brevet+ above the case markings.It is from the second quarter of 1956 and has a movement 1023.
this is one nice watch,he brought it by last week and I have been thinking about it ever since.he bought it in the 80's from a fellow who was down on his luck for a couple of hundred bucks.
he has no idea of its value but I told him it is at the least highly collectable-maybe rare?,what are your thoughts?
here are a couple of quick shots,I will post more later.
just please let me know what is known about the model and what this brevet might indicate.

[Harry_III_UK]

"Brevet" means "Patent".

Got any pics of the dial?

What is the bracelet with it?

Any box and papers?

Harry

[toph]

it should have a 1030 movement- the chronometer version
secondly until 1955 the 6536 and the 6536/1 was named the 6205

please correct me if im wrong.

secondly does it have the mercedes hands?

[colemanitis]

Very cool! Post some pics of the dial!

[Harry_III_UK]

Originally Posted by toph

it should have a 1030 movement- the chronometer version
secondly until 1955 the 6536 and the 6536/1 was named the 6205

please correct me if im wrong.

secondly does it have the mercedes hands?

Yep - 6536 was also available with the chronometer certified version of the 1030 and the model number for that was 6536/1.

So, if it is a 6536 it should have the 1030 movement.

If it is a later version then the 100m - 330ft depth rating will be in white on the dial as opposed to gilt.

In 1958 the 6536/1 model was renumbered 5508 and the movement was changed to the 1530.

6205 became the 6536 in 1955.

The 6536 had a larger winding crown than the 6205.

6205 used movement A260 and didn't always have the name "Submariner" printed on the dial or a depth rating or a Mercedes hour hand.

6536 had the 1030 movement.

6536/1 also had the 1030 movement - BUT - the movement was chronometer certified.

The bracelets for these should be 20mm rivetted.

The 5508 was in production until the mid 1960's and the dial printing changed from gold to white over the production time cycle.

The name "Submariner" can be either above or below the depth rating on the dial in the 5508.

In the mid 1960's the dial of the 5508 was changed - so that the minute markers were "ticks" coming from the edge of the dial - rather than coming from a circle track around the dial.

Hope that helps.

All the best,

Harry

[toph]

Cheers Harry- thanks for the helpful info- much appreciated

[stevemulholland3]

I will go and get more pics of the dial tomorrow.it does not have the original bracelet any longer and no box or papers.
so are these rare models?what price range should I tell him to list it for??
I looked closer at the pics of the movement and I believe you are right about the caliber,it appears it is a 1030,I dont know where he came up with 1023.
thanks for the info,
steve

[Harry_III_UK]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

I will go and get more pics of the dial tomorrow.it does not have the original bracelet any longer and no box or papers.
so are these rare models?what price range should I tell him to list it for??
I looked closer at the pics of the movement and I believe you are right about the caliber,it appears it is a 1030,I dont know where he came up with 1023.
thanks for the info,
steve

Rare...

YES!

At the "Revolution" Auction on Thursday April 17th 2008 in New York City...

Lot 157 at Revolution was a 6536/1 from 1958

BUT...

It had the RARE red triangle on the bezel where the "pearl" is.

It had a riveted bracelet.

It had 100m - 330ft on top and "Submariner" underneath.

It hammered at $20,000 USD and with premium that made it $24,000 USD

Lot 156 at Revolution was a 6536 from 1956

No red triangle.

Also riveted bracelet.

HOWEVER that was an exceptionally rare 6536 which did not feature the depth rating on its dial.

It hammered at $24,000 USD and with premium that made it $28,800 USD

Just remember, your buddy isn't an auction house so may not be able to do quite so well!

For a watch of that provenance you could do worse than to take it to a professional auction house for an appraisal.

All the best,

Harry

[stevemulholland3]

thanks for your help.
here is a couple more pics.The one of the face kept coming up corrupt-so I will have to get another.
cheers,will post the face pic as soon as I can.
steve m.

[Harry_III_UK]

Is that a "+" sign under the Rolex logo on the winding crown?

NICE!

Harry

[etp095]

sweet looking vintage watch,post more pics soon.

[stevemulholland3]

here are a few more pics.the face had some work done in 2004.I am not sure if it was just a touch up-I will get a list of exactly what was done.
he is supposed to drop it off sometime this week and I will test the waters and see what kind of interest there is and see what kind of offers are made.
thanks for all the info.
steve

[SPACE-DWELLER]

LOVELY Sub!

Not sure, but I think think the hands are original (green Radium), but the markers might have been touched up.

What does the dial say at six o' clock?

Anyway, still a very rare and expensive watch. I'd say in the 25,000 US $ region.

[stevemulholland3]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

LOVELY Sub!

Not sure, but I think think the hands are original (green Radium), but the markers might have been touched up.

What does the dial say at six o' clock?

Anyway, still a very rare and expensive watch. I'd say in the 25,000 US $ region.

I believe it just says "swiss"
would that be correct?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Yes, that would be correct!

But as I state in this thread:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=43300

there seems to be a discrepancy between what SOME old Radium dials say and what the lists over luminous markers say.

[stevemulholland3]

thanks for the info,very interesting read.
the watch is a real beauty,I wish I could buy it myself.
its weird but for some reason it seems bigger than modern subs,or maybe just sleeker..
more pics to come.
cheers,
steve m.

[etp095]

thanks for sharing the pics with us,that's a sweet old sub.

[JimSnyder]

Great story Steve. Keep us posted. Maybe if he sells it for a large sum he could get you a new Sub for helping him out. Dare to dream Jim

[ROLEX MAN]

what a gem that has been found, highly collectable.

[mickeydainish]

that's a gr8 old sub stevo!!!! gr8 pics too.... :-)

[Harry_III_UK]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

here are a few more pics.the face had some work done in 2004.I am not sure if it was just a touch up-I will get a list of exactly what was done.

Very nice Steve - the only thing is that if the original dial has been "touched up" or "re-dialled" - then you are going to seriously negatively affect the value of a vintage piece like that.

Looking at all of this - see what I said in my earlier reply - I think a professional appraisal would be a good idea.

All the best,

Harry

[vrolok]

nice pics, thank you!
very difficult to give a quotation if not directly examined by an expert. I can tell you here in italy a 6536/1 could potentially cost me around 13 to 15 kiloeuro if in reasonably good shape. in your case, unfortunately i have to say that the "retouched" dial and probably hands you have there is not appreciated. the price should drop quite considerably.

[vrolok]

below is a pic of an "untouched" 6536



for comparison. some more pics...

cal 1030


more dial:


"+ crown":


more dial, here red scripts:

[Trurolexer]

Very Nice Vintage!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

[stevemulholland3]

hey thanks for the pics,well I am going to be acting as agent for my friend in the sale.
So should I get an appraisal first?will rolex do one?will I have to send it off for this,or can I just bring it to my local ad?
he is going to be dropping it off teusday and I am going to take a bunch of high resolution pics and start the ball rolling on getting everything I need for the sale.
if anyone here will be interested just contact me and we are open to offers.
I am very excited to be a part of this-the watch is in great condition.
any advice on what I can do to make this sale go smooth would be appreciated,I have never sold a watch this valuable and I want to do everything right.
cheers,
steve m.

[mickeydainish]

...man that sub would go gr8 with a Nato strap and a bond girl on your arm!!!!! :-)

[stevemulholland3]

aint that the truth!

[stevemulholland3]

Originally Posted by mickeydainish

...man that sub would go gr8 with a Nato strap and a bond girl on your arm!!!!! :-)

be honest mickey,you would be happy with bond in your arms.

[tphan]

Awesome! I am sure there is lot of history behind it.

[mickeydainish]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

be honest mickey,you would be happy with bond in your arms.

Stevo... you're just jealous buddy.......