Thoughts on SS Grand Seiko SBGW031

[Speed]

Hi All

I've been looking at this Grand Seiko - it does not appear to be available in the US - a fair bit.

It is not a Hi Beat, which I was originally thinking of but I like the simple design AND 36mm size is attractive to me. I miss having the old Date Just size around.

It's manual wind with a pretty (albeit basic) movement as well.

The modern Hi Beats at 40mm feel a little large / clunky...and are much more expensive.

These go for about $3k...though I'm not sure if I will take a hit with import duty if I buy online.

Any thoughts - primarily from owners - or others who considered this model and bought it...or a different Grand Seiko on strap??

Thanks and Happy New Year

Photos borrowed.

[Highland Ranger]

Classic. Bought my first GS last year - haven't taken it off yet.

[Speed]

Cool. Which one did you pick up?

[Highland Ranger]

Originally Posted by Speed

Cool. Which one did you pick up?

Hi-beat gmt

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Highland Ranger

Hi-beat gmt

[Air Tzar]

I really like many GS models, this one included.

My worry is always resale - I see them sit and sit on the sales forums across the web, even at substantial discounts from MSRP.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Air Tzar

I really like many GS models, this one included.

My worry is always resale - I see them sit and sit on the sales forums across the web, even at substantial discounts from MSRP.

Ah. Yes. I have not seen this model listed used before...save for an old TRF listing at around $2700-2900.

Not too bad.

[Air Tzar]

Sounds reasonable. If you love it go for it!

[GB-man]

Looks real nice

[drhr]

I liked it well enough, coulda been my listing you saw, excellent quality for the money, buy it used and save some . . .

[Speed]

Originally Posted by drhr

I liked it well enough, coulda been my listing you saw, excellent quality for the money, buy it used and save some . . .

Awesome photos BTW!

Thanks

[Slider817]

i want to share my thought process that ended in the purchase of a GS Quartz 37mm.

I was intrigued by the brand, their innovation and pursuit of excellen with very little pretense, immaculate dials and I like their dress watch look.

I wanted to get something unique to GS, their standard hand wound movement didn't really offer much, the High Beat was more interesting, but there are other brands that make good Hi beat movements, so it left me with the Spring drive or the Best Quartz movement available, the SD was interesting, but i couldn't fully wrap my head around the spring drive not being a fully mechanical watch, so why not just go for Quartz perfection by the brand that pioneered the technology, I'm very happy with my watch, I purchased the GS leather strap and deployant buckle, as I think the bracelet looks cheap.

A few years later, I'm warming up to Spring drive technology, and the GS Chronograph is calling me.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Slider817

…the SD was interesting, but i couldn’t fully wrap my head around the spring drive not being a fully mechanical watch, so why not just go for Quartz perfection by the brand that pioneered the technology…

A Spring Drive movement is pretty much fully mechanical, bar the escapement and regulator components.
As for Seiko being the pioneers of quartz – not exactly true.
They pioneered mass production and use of synthetic quartz, but the first proponents of quartz technology were the Swiss, with Girard Perregaux being the one to set the frequency standard by which all quartz watches have adhered to since.
It was Seiko who mass produced and drove the price down of quartz watches, which then set off the quartz revolution.

[improviz]

Originally Posted by PJ S

A Spring Drive movement is pretty much fully mechanical, bar the escapement and regulator components.
As for Seiko being the pioneers of quartz – not exactly true.
They pioneered mass production and use of synthetic quartz, but the first proponents of quartz technology were the Swiss, with Girard Perregaux being the one to set the frequency standard by which all quartz watches have adhered to since.
It was Seiko who mass produced and drove the price down of quartz watches, which then set off the quartz revolution.

Not to discount the Swiss in any way, but Seiko was also early to the quartz party (started development in 1959), and in fact according to this they released the Seiko Quartz 35 Astron in 1969, prior to the Swiss entries into retail (though the Swiss had their prototypes done much sooner)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watc...onic_movements

In 1959 Seiko placed an order with Epson (a daughter company of Seiko and the 'brain' behind the quartz revolution) to start developing a quartz wristwatch. The project was codenamed 59A. By the 1964 Tokyo Summer Olympics, Seiko had a working prototype of a portable quartz watch which was used as the time measurements throughout the event.

The first prototypes of an electronic quartz wristwatch (not just portable quartz watches as the Seiko timekeeping devices at the Tokyo Olympics in 1964) were made by the CEH research laboratory in Neuchâtel, Switzerland. From 1965 through 1967 pioneering development work was done on a miniaturized 8192 Hz quartz oscillator, a thermo-compensation module and an inhouse-made, dedicated integrated circuit (unlike the hybrid circuits used in the later Seiko Astron wristwatch). As a result, the BETA 1 prototype set new timekeeping performance records at the International Chronometric Competition held at the Observatory of Neuchâtel in 1967.[24] In 1970, 18 manufacturers exhibited production versions of the beta 21 wristwatch, including the Omega Electroquartz as well as Patek Philippe, Rolex Oysterquartz and Piaget


Quartz Movement of the Seiko Astron, 1969 (Deutsches Uhrenmuseum, Inv. 2010-006)
The first quartz watch to enter production was the Seiko 35 SQ Astron, which hit the shelves on 25 December 1969, swiftly followed by the Swiss Beta 21, and then a year later the prototype of one of the world's most accurate wristwatches to date: the Omega Marine Chronometer. Thanks to the technology having been developed by the Swiss, Seiko could not patent the whole movement of the quartz wristwatch, thus allowing other manufacturers to participate in the rapid growth and development of the quartz watch market, This ended — in less than a decade — almost 100 years of dominance by the mechanical wristwatch legacy. Modern quartz movements are produced in very large quantities, and even the cheapest wristwatches typically have quartz movements. Whereas mechanical movements can typically be off by several seconds a day, an inexpensive quartz movement in a child's wristwatch may still be accurate to within half a second per day — ten times more accurate than a mechanical movement.[25]

Also note that this all came about four decades after the first quartz clock was made at Bell Labs, in 1929.

[Speed]

I don't see these come up much.

And power sellers don't carry them.

Any idea what % duty may get tacked on in an online purchase from Japan?

Hmm don't thinking could do Quartz 🙄

[DCheeta]

I want to pick up this or a similar model, but I've never seen one in person. I plan to check them out and probably buy one in Tokyo next month. If I do, I'll come back and report in.

[Wesley Crusher]

That's a nice looking watch. The movement finishing appears to be excellent for the price.

I like GS quite a bit, but have you looked into the OP? The new 36mm and 39mm models are really nice (and fairly inexpensive). If you're looking for a moderately sized, basic watch, the OP definitely checks all the boxes and you get Rolex quality and resale value to boot.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

That's a nice looking watch. The movement finishing appears to be excellent for the price.

I like GS quite a bit, but have you looked into the OP? The new 36mm and 39mm models are really nice (and fairly inexpensive). If you're looking for a moderately sized, basic watch, the OP definitely checks all the boxes and you get Rolex quality and resale value to boot.

Thanks

Really wanted something different...If I wanted a Rolex I'd look to an older DJ

[dera]

The import duty is roughly 3pct, so a complete non issue.
Great brand, and when bought from Japan, wont depreciate that badly given the inflated US msrp.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by dera

The import duty is roughly 3pct, so a complete non issue.
Great brand, and when bought from Japan, wont depreciate that badly given the inflated US msrp.

Thanks!

No one has been able to confirm that for me.

[dera]

Originally Posted by Speed

Thanks!

No one has been able to confirm that for me.

What confirmation do you need?

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Speed

No one has been able to confirm that for me.

First, great choice

The only way to really confirm it short of just importing that exact model it is to go to the published U.S. Customs HTS (Harmonized Tariff Schedule). Unfortunately, like most Gov pubs it's not the easiest thing to decipher, but you'll find the rates for for watches in Section 9101 (Chapter 91, "Clocks and Watches and parts thereof").

The rates and/or fees vary slightly by type of movement, no. of jewels, case material, band/bracelet material. If you decide to get it, you'll have to know the info for the breakdown on their form and give a value for each category (movement, case, strap/bracelet) because varying rates on each part may apply.

You'll see from the published table in 9101 that 3.1% is a good, generic starting point for an automatic-wind, mechanical watch. Without knowing all the particulars for the model you want, If I were guessing as to what total duties and fees would be on a $3000 watch of that type I'd say around $120 at most (4%), most likely less.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by CRM114

First, great choice

The rates and/or fees vary slightly by type of movement, no. of jewels, case material, band/bracelet material. If you decide to get it, you'll have to know the info for the breakdown on their form and give a value for each category (movement, case, strap/bracelet) because varying rates on each part may apply.

Thanks. OK. Here's a dumb question. I've purchased relatively cheap SEIKOs, Cocktail Time ~$400 etc. The watch just came to me via Japan Mail...end of story.

Am I going to have to pick *this* watch up at the post office - and pay before I get my package?? Where does the fee get assessed?

I recall buying a pair of Churchs wingtips online - from the UK. Ended up getting a bill from DHL some time later. Is this how buying a more expensive watch from Japan would work?

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Speed

Thanks. OK. Here's a dumb question. I've purchased relatively cheap SEIKOs, Cocktail Time ~$400 etc. The watch just came to me via Japan Mail...end of story.

Am I going to have to pick *this* watch up at the post office - and pay before I get my package?? Where does the fee get assessed?

I recall buying a pair of Churchs wingtips online - from the UK. Ended up getting a bill from DHL some time later. Is this how buying a more expensive watch from Japan would work?

Not a dumb question at all because it varies. If it gets shipped through international mail services you'll pay the duties/fees at the post office or to the mail carrier. If sent through a courier service it'll work like your DHL billing. You really need to know/arrange how it will be shipped in order to determine how you'll pay.

It's been awhile since I've had one sent into the U.S. so double check the above. I've normally just worn and declared any I obtained abroad upon entering the U.S via commercial or private aircraft and paid duties/fees that way.

[PJ S]

For the benefit of anyone looking at getting a Grand Seiko, here’s a breakdown of the model codes.

SBGA – Spring Drive
SBGC – SD Chronograph

SBGR – Automatic
SBGM/SBGE – Automatic GMT

SBGH – Hi Beat Automatic
SBGJ – Hi Beat GMT

SBGX/SBGV/SBGT – Quartz

SBGW – Manual hand wound

No low beat sub-dial seconds – Seiko don’t accept it as suitable for the long-standing philosophy that Grand Seiko was founded on…displaying time in the clearest manner possible.
For this reason, sadly, we’re unlikely to ever see moonphase or annual/perpetual calendar complications within the GS range, and as Credor is still very much a JDM line, with lower production numbers than Grand Seiko, it’s highly unlikely to come from there either.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by PJ S

For the benefit of anyone looking at getting a Grand Seiko, here’s a breakdown of the model codes.

SBGA – Spring Drive
SBGC – SD Chronograph

SBGR – Automatic
SBGM/SBGE – Automatic GMT

SBGH – Hi Beat Automatic
SBGJ – Hi Beat GMT

SBGX/SBGV/SBGT – Quartz

SBGW – Manual hand wound

No low beat sub-dial seconds – Seiko don’t accept it as suitable for the long-standing philosophy that Grand Seiko was founded on…displaying time in the clearest manner possible.
For this reason, sadly, we’re unlikely to ever see moonphase or annual/perpetual calendar complications within the GS range, and as Credor is still very much a JDM line, with lower production numbers than Grand Seiko, it’s highly unlikely to come from there either.

Cool.

Nice chart to have!

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Speed

Cool.

Nice chart to have!

No problem.
I forgot a couple…

SBGB001 and 003 – two only (afaik and so far) of a SD Chronograph with conservative style pushers.
Cheaper too with the 3-piece (supposedly sporty) bracelet.

SBGL – Automatic with PR indicator and 9S67 movement.

SBGL015 (50 piece Ltd Ed Green ‘fern’ dial)



SBGL019 (30 piece LE)






Of course, would’ve just been easier to link these instead!

http://www.tempusdomains.com/index.php?cat=81&page=1
http://www.watchprosite.com/?page=wf...3&pzt=&dv=true – missing SBGL017 & 19

[Fiddich]

Originally Posted by PJ S

For the benefit of anyone looking at getting a Grand Seiko, here’s a breakdown of the model codes.

SBGA – Spring Drive
SBGC – SD Chronograph

SBGR – Automatic
SBGM/SBGE – Automatic GMT

SBGH – Hi Beat Automatic
SBGJ – Hi Beat GMT

SBGX/SBGV/SBGT – Quartz

SBGW – Manual hand wound

No low beat sub-dial seconds – Seiko don’t accept it as suitable for the long-standing philosophy that Grand Seiko was founded on…displaying time in the clearest manner possible.
For this reason, sadly, we’re unlikely to ever see moonphase or annual/perpetual calendar complications within the GS range, and as Credor is still very much a JDM line, with lower production numbers than Grand Seiko, it’s highly unlikely to come from there either.

What do you mean bg JDM? And credor does have a model with a moon phase no?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Fiddich

What do you mean bg JDM? And credor does have a model with a moon phase no?

Japanese Domestic Market.
Yes, but long since out of production – GCLL992/993/995/997/999 – and limited numbers produced whilst in production.

[bdex75]

I love manual wind watches. I currently have 4. And I really like GS a lot. Have never owned one but that one is beautiful.

I was looking at a snowflake dialed spring drive personally. Just love the dial.

This one in particular. Pic borrowed from C24


These are the two that currently fill my "dressier" manual wind spot in the collection. If you like the German design they are great options. And around the same price range as the GS you posted.





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