Eslectronic Scale for Coffee, Short Longevity

[shakin_jake]

Like others caught up in the coffee hobby, I started using an electronic scale to weigh my coffee for more consistency. I bought this particular scale from Amazon in July 2015 and it crapped out on me last week. When it died, I ordered another one (same scale) immediately and it arrived yesterday. A few thoughts on this topic from me:

I first came to realize others were using scales to weigh coffee when I stopped by a coffee shop in my area (Volta Café, Gainesville Fla.) a few years ago



here's a Frauliner pulling a shot and if you look closely, you can see the scale under the cup



are your eyes as bad as mine and can't see the scale?...here's a close up pic, better to see the scale...

okay, admittedly, she's pretty and I thought I would show a better pic of her endearing smile

Getting back to the subject at hand...using scales to weigh coffee, I should mention that for me, my coffee, what I drink is espresso, more in particular, and I'm not ashamed to say or admit it but, I'm stuck in a rut and drink cappuccino, ristretto caps (.75 ounce) of espresso in a 5.5 ounce cup topped off with a 50/50 mixture of steamed/frothed milk. I pull doubles (double shot) into two cups, so one shot per cup, instead of a doiuble shot into a 5.5 ounce cup. Just the way I prefer to drink my coffee

I started out on this dark road while living and working in the lower Fla. Keys where stopping for a coffee meant hitting up a Cuban joint and ordering a café con leche, which is an espresso drink and namely, one shot of espresso added to 8 ounces of steamed milk. All the Cuban cafes in the lower Keys served this drink the same way, with plenty of sugar, unless you specified otherwise

We left the Keys and moved up here (north central Fla.) about 18 years ago and once we left the Keys, I stopped drinking café con leches, for good, until a chance meeting in early 2008 when I met someone and the meeting place was to be the Starbucks in downtown Ocala Fla.

So we're standing in line and when it was my turn to order a coffee drink (what else is there to drink at Starbucks?) unable to dicpher their coffee menu, I asked the person behind the cash register is it possible for them to make me a café con leche, not seeing that drink listed

As soon as I said that, the barista whom I hadn't noticed before this piped up and said "I'm a Cuban from Hialeah and I know exactly what you want". In like Flynn...

Anyways, it was a fairly good café con leche but not quite as dark (the roast) as what you'll find in south Fla. Now trust me, I really didn't know much about espresso in general at that point, other than the roasters in south Fla. take their espresso roast to a higher, darker level of roast than what Starbucks did (at that time) for the coffee they roasted, claiming to be espresso, but that's a whole nother topic. I drank my drink, enjoyed it and came back two weeks later, just to have another one, then my next return was a week after that, then it was every day. Yeah I got sucked in

As much as I enjoyed Starbcuk's interpretation of a café con leche, it was a PITA going into town everyday just for coffee, so I decided to go online to find out how to brew espresso in my home. And what followed was another rabbit hole I jumped into

I really did my homework, learning early on that the coffee grinder was far more important than the machine you used to brew espresso. And that's not to say, it's also very important, to use fresh roasted coffee. So I embarked upon another facet of the coffee hobby...home roasting green coffee!

Before I forget, I wanted to mention, when I started making espresso at home, my lust for café con leche soon turned to drinking cappuccino. I found that I liked the chiffon like quality, frothed milk affords, but not all frothed, there has to be some steamed milk in the equation

I've gone through approx. 5 espresso machines and 2 grinders since June 2008, and it wasn't until last summer that I started using an electronic scale to weigh my coffee. That said, I weigh the coffee twice. First scale is done when the grinds go into the porta filter as I weigh the porta filter and then dose it, then I weigh the coffee going into the cups, coming out of the porta filter

For me, what weighing the coffee does is give me more consistent cups. Although the first scale only lasted for 7 months, I wasn't totally lost not having a working scale to use for not quite a week while I waited for the new scale to arrive. it was easy for me to revert back to my old habit of eye balling what goes into the porta filer, and what comes out of said PF into the cups

For those not familiar with making espresso, if you're going to do it right, there are rules! What rules? Okay, off the top of my head

one shot is 7 grams off coffee in the basket (the coffee basket rests in the porta filter), so a double shot is 14 grams, but nothing is black and white, my current coffee basket for doubles is set up for 17 grams

Another parameter is the temperature of the strike water...approx... 193 to 203 degrees Fahrenheit

Then there is the pressure of the water forced through coffee. 8.5 to 9 bars pressure

the duration of the shot is 25-30 seconds

I think I covered all of the parameters for a shot of espresso here, and this formula was worked out by Dr. Illy (SP?) in Italy years ago. Adding an electronic scale just adds another dimension to the mix. That said, "I don't need no stinkin scale to make espresso", but it does help to make more consistent cups, along with other mandatories, like keeping it all clean. Cleanliness is next to Godliness, when it comes to coffee...

Others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
A spoon does not know the taste of soup, nor a learned fool the taste of wisdom
Celticrusader B&B

[Rock]

Hi Jake, great to hear somebody that is really into their Espresso.
It was interesting to hear your description as different places use slightly different names for the same thing. Even in the same country, there is some variation in the names used by different cafes.
Making great coffee on an Espresso machine is a combination of art and science with many variables all of which have a significant impact on what ends up in the cup.
Home Espresso machines (single groups) have tended to be the more challenging machines on which to work due to the greater technical sophistication of the multi-group commercial machines, but I notice that dual boilers and electronic temperature control is now becoming standard fare on many good home machines.
A quality grinder is still an expensive but necessary piece of equipment.
I make the full range of coffee styles on my machine and enjoy them all from straight shots to Piccolo Lattes, although never a greater ratio of milk or water than 2:1 as I like to taste the beans.
I will have to draw the line at the weighing of the grind and/or shot as I am obsessive enough already.
Good Health!

[shakin_jake]

Originally Posted by Rock

Hi Jake, great to hear somebody that is really into their Espresso.
It was interesting to hear your description as different places use slightly different names for the same thing. Even in the same country, there is some variation in the names used by different cafes.
Making great coffee on an Espresso machine is a combination of art and science with many variables all of which have a significant impact on what ends up in the cup.
Home Espresso machines (single groups) have tended to be the more challenging machines on which to work due to the greater technical sophistication of the multi-group commercial machines, but I notice that dual boilers and electronic temperature control is now becoming standard fare on many good home machines. A quality grinder is still an expensive but necessary piece of equipment.
I make the full range of coffee styles on my machine and enjoy them all from straight shots to Piccolo Lattes, although never a greater ratio of milk or water than 2:1 as I like to taste the beans.
I will have to draw the line at the weighing of the grind and/or shot as I am obsessive enough already.
Good Health!

~~~FWIW, my first espresso machine was a single boiler with PID, albeit, it was modded (PID added)



this is the only pic I have of it (Gaggia Classic) No temp swings with PID

I then went through several HX machines and loved them. Now, pulling shots on a Linea Mini since about last summer. I still think it takes a skilled hand to pull a good shot, no matter what machine you have to work with but as was drummed into my head by my mentor...keep it clean!

[DeeTee]

Can you use weighted scales? Might be over the top, but at least you don't have to worry about them crapping out. Just make sure they are calibrated correctly once in a while.

[shakin_jake]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Can you use weighted scales?

~~~no

reason being, the scale and cup has to fit under the group/porta filter...there just isn't the room, and why most of us that use scales, use those rather thin LED scales

this is the scale I'm using

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o01_s00

it's thin enough to fit in an already tight space

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by shakin_jake

~~~no

reason being, the scale and cup has to fit under the group/porta filter...there just isn't the room, and why most of us that use scales, use those rather thin LED scales

this is the scale I'm using

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o01_s00

it's thin enough to fit in an already tight space

I hadn't thought about weighing the cup, but you make very good points. I'll give it a try.

I saw this one on Amazon. I usually associate price with value on instrumentation, so this one is kind of iffy from that perspective. Do you think it would be sufficient for this application?

http://www.amazon.com/CoastLine-Digi...ee+scale&psc=1

[greggsiam]

This one is rated the highest on Amazon (6,000 reviews) and a bit cheaper
http://www.amazon.com/Ozeri-Digital-...bs_678508011_1

another site for ranking various scales
http://food-scales-review.toptenreviews.com/

[shakin_jake]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I hadn't thought about weighing the cup, but you make very good points. I'll give it a try.

~~~just guessing here but I think the use of scales to weigh coffee, both before (weighing the grinds# and after #what comes out of the machine going into the cup(s##, matters more to retailers that are trying to sell a particular taste, time and time again. Repeatable results if you will. I latched onto this way of making my espresso drinks because like all of the other parameters that make up espresso, scaling the grinds and then the coffee itself helps to make a more consistent shot. Since I'm not measuring the milk I'm frothing/steaming, the milk portion of the drink will be more of a variable, but again, weighing, scaling the coffee itself just makes sense to me, and it's not hard to do and doesn't take up much more time to build the drink

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I saw this one on Amazon. I usually associate price with value on instrumentation, so this one is kind of iffy from that perspective. Do you think it would be sufficient for this application?

http://www.amazon.com/CoastLine-Digi...ee+scale&psc=1

~~~after looking at this picture you posted here and looking at my AWS scale more closely, I wouldn't be surprised if they're both made by the same manufacturer. Same scale more or less, just built for different markets

Originally Posted by Demosthene

Beans are also more important than you'd think #although it seems obvious#
No matter how perfect your technique is, sometimes one particular roasters beans just have a better flavour or give more crema once the shot has been pulled.

Hunt down a few highly rated independant roasters if you can.

~~~when it comes to espresso made in your home, you are either using beans you roast yourself, or some fresh roast by a commercial #artisan perhaps# roaster, or beans sold in a can or a bag off the shelf at your grocers or purchased online, yet roasted some time ago, and not very fresh #Lavazza brand for example, or even Starbucks here in the states#

When I went to that Starbucks in Ocala Fla. back in 08' and drank their shots, they had a chalk board posting their coffees, along with a roast date, and the freshest roast date was 8 weeks out^ I was taught #and still believe# that the best tasting espresso is made from roasted beans no more than 10 days old #for espresso#^ Most of the coffee I roast for myself is no older than 5 days at the oldest

That said there is such a thing as drinking roasted coffee too young^ Although I appreciate a good rough and ready roast #quite young#, most coffee I roast tastes best if it's at least 72 hours old, and there have been green beans I bought and was told by the seller #sweetmarias, one of their Sumatrans# if roasting for espresso, to wait for 5 days to pass before using for espresso, which would then only give you a 5 day window to drink it for the freshest results

This is why I roast for myself^ I'm assured the freshest coffee possible^ Once in a great while I end up using beans that are up to two weeks of age but really #IMNSHO#, anything roasted coffee older than 10 days is best put in the compost pail



Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthene View Post
Beans are also more important than you'd think #although it seems obvious#
No matter how perfect your technique is, sometimes one particular roasters beans just have a better flavour or give more crema once the shot has been pulled^

Hunt down a few highly rated independant roasters if you can^


#QUOTE=Brenngun;6498634# This is why I roast my own beans^ Nothing better than a pure shot pulled from freshly roasted beans^ Also after a little practice consistency becomes the norm^ If you cant roast your own then the above is sage advice^
#/QUOTE#


~~~agreed



#QUOTE=Brenngun;6498634#
Also weight is not the best approach to consistent results as the roast level will have an affect #darker roasts will weigh less#^ #/QUOTE#



~~~Rick, while it's true if you take your roast to a higher roast level #darker#, that roast will weigh less than the same coffee if roasted to a lessor degree, since the darker roast will have less water in it, as more water wight has been roasted out and therefore weighs less, this fact has no bearing whatsoever when it comes to scaling the coffee going into the porta filter and scaling the same coffee #as a liquid# going into your cup#s#^^^and is also the same phenomena that is responsible for why we have to continually adjust the grind/grinder tighter as the roast gets older #it's evaporating#

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

What kind of roaster are you using?

~~~although you asked Rick this question, and while we wait for his answer...I'll mention what I'm using to roast coffee, for espresso...



https://www.hottopusa.com/

I'm using the model B, and FWIW, I'm on my 2nd one

When I first started roasting coffee I used a hot air corn popper, but admittedly, it wasn't getting hot enough and I didn't feel like modding it to make it perform better so I bought a Behmor drum roaster-



Which obviously looks like a toaster oven. They can roast up to a pound #starting weight# if you drink drip and only roast to a City + level of roast. As I was using that rpaster for espresso, I was limited to 12 ounce batches to get the roast to a FC + #full city plus# level of roast

FWIW, drum roasters like the Hot Top and the Behmor, accentuate bass notes in coffee whereas hot air poppers tend to bring out bright notes. Since I drink espresso and like bass notes more than bright ones, drum roasters work better for me, but that's not to say you couldn't use an air popper type of coffee roaster, exclusively for your espresso. As a wise man once said to me, "nothing is black and white"

This is my next coffee roaster-

https://millcityroasters.com/shop/co...offee-roaster/

The Hot Top B model works fine for me, especially if I'm only roasting and drinking espresso for myself, since the roast length I've been using with it, which is also it's capacity, is 280 grams, and that lasts me realistically, about 5 days, which also means I'm roasting coffee approx. every 5 days, but this winter and last winter, my wife's Aunt has been staying with us and she drinks nearly as much coffee as I do which means I roast more often as a result, and why I'm eyeing the 1 KG gas roaster

Not that anyone asked but while I'm discussing my roasting coffee habit, something else that comes into play while roasting is the smoke the coffee roasters give off. Keep in mind coffee roasters like the Hot Top B model, originally built as a sample roaster for commercial roasters, there are a lot of hobbyists like myself using small coffee roasters for home use. Since I'm asthmatic, it's a bit of problem for me to spend much time around the roaster, towards the end of the roasting process, when it's putting out a lot of smoke, and another reason I'm attracted to a larger roaster that is better able to remove the exhaust smoke from the roasting area, so long as the exhaust is plumbed and routed outdoors. Others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[azguy]

Ok, I've seen it all now

[Demosthene]

Beans are also more important than you'd think (although it seems obvious)
No matter how perfect your technique is, sometimes one particular roasters beans just have a better flavour or give more crema once the shot has been pulled.

Hunt down a few highly rated independant roasters if you can.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

Beans are also more important than you'd think (although it seems obvious)
No matter how perfect your technique is, sometimes one particular roasters beans just have a better flavour or give more crema once the shot has been pulled.

Hunt down a few highly rated independant roasters if you can.

This is why I roast my own beans. Nothing better than a pure shot pulled from freshly roasted beans. Also after a little practice consistency becomes the norm. If you cant roast your own then the above is sage advice.

Also weight is not the best approach to consistent results as the roast level will have an affect (darker roasts will weigh less).

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Brenngun

This is why I roast my own beans. Nothing better than a pure shot pulled from freshly roasted beans. Also after a little practice consistency becomes the norm. If you cant roast your own then the above is sage advice.

Also weight is not the best approach to consistent results as the roast level will have an affect (darker roasts will weigh less).

What kind of roaster are you using?

[TheVTCGuy]

Wow, you guys really know your stuff and I admire your passion. I am not a coffee drinker, but do admit to being addicted to Chai Tea Lattes


Somehow, this emoticon seems extremely relevant to this thread, just replace the beer with coffee cups.

[Rock]

Yes, ultimately if the bean is poor then no matter how skilled the Barista, the result will also be poor.
Roasting your own chosen varieties of green bean is another certain way to ensure you get exactly what you want in your cup.
I have a roaster who roasts the way I want and so it is worth it to me to pay a bit extra to buy brown beans that I know I like and will work in the types of coffee I drink most.
There is a lot of very ordinary bean on the market and it is worthwhile trying offerings from different roasters until you find the ones that put a smile on your face.

[volkann]

Well done! I bought a new commercial coffee roasting machine. It is Kafgar Coffee Roaster 10 kg batca capacity. I have been using it for 2 months. I suggest you.

[Sperry]

No way this scale would fit there but I'll show it off anyway.

My new scale arrived TODAY! It has a FIVE year warranty and displays the weight five different ways. I'm super-impressed. I'll monitor my cat's cat food more efficiently, but I really got it to record the weights of instruments. Tomorrow I want to compare the differences between sets of violin pegs; I think the better ones are a little heavier but want to confirm it.

Here we have a couple little tops; the 1914 is lighter than the 1895 ... And one whole mid-1800s junker is about 12% heavier than a fine instrument should be.

[Ballzzz]

Any fellow forum members who roast let me know I can shoot you guys some green samples.

[shakin_jake]

Originally Posted by Ballzzz

Any fellow forum members who roast let me know I can shoot you guys some green samples.

###which country?


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by shakin_jake

###which country?


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

ANY

Costa Rica/Colombia/Indonesia/Ethiopia/Honduras/Guatemala/Brazil

www.armeniacoffee.com

[77T]

Originally Posted by volkann

Well done! I bought a new commercial coffee roasting machine. It is Kafgar Coffee Roaster 10 kg batca capacity. I have been using it for 2 months. I suggest you.

Welcome to the Forum.

And your post is the “one and only” of maybe one million resurrections of a 2+ year old thread that is worthwhile.

Why? Just read below \\\

Originally Posted by Ballzzz

Any fellow forum members who roast let me know I can shoot you guys some green samples.

That is a great gesture to the bean aficionados!!!
Are you the “Jr.”, or the “III’d”?

On the topic that started this thread - IMHO weighing a fresh shot out of the machine is meaningless unless you’re making a Cap or Latte.

What makes a great outcome is the bean, the roast, the water, the pressure, the heat, the pull, and the machine’s clean parts.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by 77T

Welcome to the Forum.

That is a great gesture to the bean aficionados!!!
Are you the “Jr.”, or the “III’d”?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It is my pleasure.
Neither just a lowly trader lOl

[SearChart]

I just use a regular digital kitchen scale that we've had for ages to weigh my coffee and water when making a pour over brew.