Rolex 16710 with 3186 Movement. Yes or No.

[Rolex Freak]

Hello TRF Friends,

I'm not sure if this has been discussed recently. I did see a thread dating back to 2010/11, but nothing current. Now that we are in 2016 I thought I'd bring it up. Just wondering if people feel that the 16710 GMT with 3186 movement is worth the premium. In most cases, they run about almost double what a non-3186 would go for. My understanding is that the late Z serial and M serial's were fitted with a 3186 movement along with either a stick or rectangular dial. I've also read that there were only about a total of 30,000 pieces made this way. In the grand scheme of things, they are very rare and extremely hard to find. Especially recently. I've searched pretty much all forums and other places like watchrecon and eBay and there are only a hand full, but only one complete set that comes with a ridiculously high price. Having said that, I just wanted some opinions on whether you feel the extra premium is worth paying. I've set up a poll, so feel free to vote and give me your opinion. I know some will feel that you can buy two for the price of one or just about, but what about future consideration. All thoughts are welcome and I appreciate the feedback.

[Alexwwjd]

I don't think it's worth the premium, but the price difference is not that much. If you get a 16710 with 3185 you'll be happy with it. I am

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by Alexwwjd

I don't think it's worth the premium, but the price difference is not that much. If you get a 16710 with 3185 you'll be happy with it. I am

Thanks Alex. I do have a D serial but I'm thinking of upgrading to the M serial 3186. Just very very hard to find and thought I'd pose the question to the masses.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by Alexwwjd

I don't think it's worth the premium, but the price difference is not that much. If you get a 16710 with 3185 you'll be happy with it. I am

The price difference is a fair bit. Most D and Z serial's are going for around 6500-7200 and the 3186 is going for between 10-13k depending on the condition, how compete the set is and whether it's an original coke or pepsi bezel. There are two on eBay both without papers and they are asking 8500-9500.

[Old Expat Beast]

Not worth it. Crazy prices being asked right now. There's one going here for the equivalent of US$20,000 at the moment.

[TheVTCGuy]

To my knowledge, the only real difference between the 85 and 86 is the Parachrome spring?

[Tools]

Anybody who comes up with a number made is blowing it out the sheets.. Rolex doesn't release production numbers let alone what a single production model run would be.

In any event, they are hardly rare since we see them all the time here on the Forum, and forums represent a very small percentage of owners.

Now is the time for sellers (and movement swappers) to get some money from these because there are folks who, for whatever reason, seem to think this is something special and will pay a premium. However, Rolex has been sticking different movements in plenty of references without it ever having a bearing on the long term "value". Speculation is just that; get one if you feel it will be worth it or you just want that combination.

[Rolex Freak]

Yes I saw that. Now that's a real crazy number. I don't think anyone in their right mind would pay that amount. At least not for awhile anyways.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by Tools

Anybody who comes up with a number made is blowing it out the sheets.. Rolex doesn't release production numbers let alone what a single production model run would be.

In any event, they are hardly rare since we see them all the time here on the Forum, and forums represent a very small percentage of owners.

Now is the time for sellers (and movement swappers) to get some money from these because there are folks who, for whatever reason, seem to think this is something special and will pay a premium. However, Rolex has been sticking different movements in plenty of references without it ever having a bearing on the long term "value". Speculation is just that; get one if you feel it will be worth it or you just want that combination.

Thanks for the input Larry. Here is the link where I found the info on the numbers.
http://classicwatchny.com/watch-collection-2/
I don't know who this person is, but he obviously is trying to push the sale a little. With regards to your comment about "movement swapper," I guess more than ever you need to buy from a reputable source. Having said that, I'd still have my watchmaker open the case back to insure not that only that the movement is a 3186, but to insure that that movement serial is registered to that particular 16710. At the end of the day, whether it's internet hype, speculation or otherwise, it's up to the buyer to determine it's worth. Having said that, it's interesting to see and hear what people have to say about.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Rolex Freak

Thanks for the input Larry. Here is the link where I found the info on the numbers.
http://classicwatchny.com/watch-collection-2/
I don't know who this person is, but he obviously is trying to push the sale a little. With regards to your comment about "movement swapper," I guess more than ever you need to buy from a reputable source. Having said that, I'd still have my watchmaker open the case back to insure not that only that the movement is a 3186, but to insure that that movement serial is registered to that particular 16710. At the end of the day, whether it's internet hype, speculation or otherwise, it's up to the buyer to determine it's worth. Having said that, it's interesting to see and hear what people have to say about.

Only RSC can match the movement and case serials.

And that website you linked to seems to specialise in hyperbole.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Not worth it. Crazy prices being asked right now. There's one going here for the equivalent of US$20,000 at the moment.

Agree on this!

[DCgator]

Cray cray!

[Alpino]

.

Generally those who have a 16710 with 3186 say it's worth the premium , and those who don't (or can't afford one) say the contrary.

The truth is that every time one is for sale, it doesn't stay for long.


Regarding the movment swap it's not really an option as the 3186 have been introduced at a determined date , with determined serial numbers . It replaced the 3185 for all Gmt2 (and Explorer 2) past this date or s/n.
There haven't been a mix of 16710 3185 or 3186 at the same time.
The guy who would put a 3186 in a 3185 16710 would have to find this 3185 16710 in a very thin range of s/n to stay credible (around z79.... or z81...).

[capote]

No way

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rolex Freak

Hello TRF Friends,

I'm not sure if this has been discussed recently. I did see a thread dating back to 2010/11, but nothing current. Now that we are in 2016 I thought I'd bring it up. Just wondering if people feel that the 16710 GMT with 3186 movement is worth the premium. In most cases, they run about almost double what a non-3186 would go for. My understanding is that the late Z serial and M serial's were fitted with a 3186 movement along with either a stick or rectangular dial. I've also read that there were only about a total of 30,000 pieces made this way. In the grand scheme of things, they are very rare and extremely hard to find. Especially recently. I've searched pretty much all forums and other places like watchrecon and eBay and there are only a hand full, but only one complete set that comes with a ridiculously high price. Having said that, I just wanted some opinions on whether you feel the extra premium is worth paying. I've set up a poll, so feel free to vote and give me your opinion. I know some will feel that you can buy two for the price of one or just about, but what about future consideration. All thoughts are welcome and I appreciate the feedback.

Speaking for myself I would never pay extra for a modified 3185 into a 3186 no matter the watch.As for the infamous stick dial or some call it a mistake dial when all it was a simple font change much like the hundreds of others over the past 50 odd years.The internet is a wonderful place to generate Rolex hype so wonderful many buy into this internet hype but its there money.But they do say a fool and his money is soon parted, so buy if you want its your choice.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Only RSC can match the movement and case serials.

And that website you linked to seems to specialise in hyperbole.

Yes he works at RSC. Thanks Adam.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

Generally those who have a 16710 with 3186 say it's worth the premium , and those who don't (or can't afford one) say the contrary.

The truth is that every time one is for sale, it doesn't stay for long.


Regarding the movment swap it's not really an option as the 3186 have been introduced at a determined date , with determined serial numbers . It replaced the 3185 for all Gmt2 (and Explorer 2) past this date or s/n.
There haven't been a mix of 16710 3185 or 3186 at the same time.
The guy who would put a 3186 in a 3185 16710 would have to find this 3185 16710 in a very thin range of s/n to stay credible (around z79.... or z81...).

That's one way of putting it.

[dmitrii_]

Got a 16710 Pepsi last year with the 3186 movement. It is a z serial and i paid less than current prices. I think this is a special watch and love knowing how unique it is when wearing it. Plan to keep it in the stable. It is also my only older Rolex, the rest are all current models.

Knowing that it has the same movement as all current GMT II's is nice. Also knowing that it is the last of the ss Pepsi's is kinda cool.

With that said, the 3185 will essentially be the same watch and probably give you the same pleasure. If you're a big believer in "investing" in a watch maybe go for the 3186. If you just want a 16710 Pepsi, go for the 3185 and save yourself 3k or so.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by dmitrii_

Got a 16710 Pepsi last year with the 3186 movement. It is a z serial and i paid less than current prices. I think this is a special watch and love knowing how unique it is when wearing it. Plan to keep it in the stable. It is also my only older Rolex, the rest are all current models.

Knowing that it has the same movement as all current GMT II's is nice. Also knowing that it is the last of the ss Pepsi's is kinda cool.

With that said, the 3185 will essentially be the same watch and probably give you the same pleasure. If you're a big believer in "investing" in a watch maybe go for the 3186. If you just want a 16710 Pepsi, go for the 3185 and save yourself 3k or so.

Thanks. It's nice to hear from someone that actually owns one. Good point on the investment vs just owing one.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by padi56

Speaking for myself I would never pay extra for a modified 3185 into a 3186 no matter the watch.As for the infamous stick dial or some call it a mistake dial when all it was a simple font change much like the hundreds of others over the past 50 odd years.The internet is a wonderful place to generate Rolex hype so wonderful many buy into this internet hype but its there money.But they do say a fool and his money is soon parted, so buy if you want its your choice.

I wish we could go back in time to when Rolex offered a 1680 and a 1680 with red "Submariner" to find out who thought it was worth it or not. Today we see the reds going for just about twice the price and yet people buy them, collect them and at times, have both. And the end of the day, it will always come down to personal preference, but if you ask me, most people outside of this forum and watch enthusiast think that we are all fools for parting with the amount of money that we do, on the hobby that we all love. Ultimately time will tell.

[travisb]

I personally think the premiums being asked for the 3186 are flat out ridiculous but there's always some out there willing to pay.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Hype or not...I've seen these 16710/ 3186s in the last few years go thru the roof. Agree or not, it was a great investment for me. The price seems to be only going in one direction...up! Either grab one now, or it seems get ready to pay even more down the road.

[Mr DateJust]

Simply solution is get an explorer 2 with the 3186. Plenty more of them out there and a bargain compared to the GMT 😃.

[Alpino]

Originally Posted by Mr DateJust

Simply solution is get an explorer 2 with the 3186. Plenty more of them out there and a bargain compared to the GMT ��.

Explorer II with 3186 are more common, as they were produced and sold during nearly 5 years. For Gmt2 it was less than one year.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Originally Posted by Mr DateJust

Simply solution is get an explorer 2 with the 3186. Plenty more of them out there and a bargain compared to the GMT 😃.

And be careful when buying a 16710/3186...many clever watchmakers have installed a 3186 out of an Explorer, and then installed it in a 16710 to get the premium...paperwork is a must with this particular piece! Know what you are buying!

[Alpino]

.

Except if someone have a proof of the contrary, all 16710/16570 with 3186 were delivered with credit card format warranty. All 3185 versions were delivered with a paper warranty.

So if you find a 16710/3186 with paper warranty , or a 16570/3185 with credit card warranty , especially if it's from the same vendor, there's a problem ...

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Not worth it. Crazy prices being asked right now. There's one going here for the equivalent of US$20,000 at the moment.

Crazy price differences. I'd much rather have a watch in mint unpolished condition, than have have one with a mildly tweaked movement. I'd also rather have a later 16110lv, with a nicer green insert than a "rarer" flat 4. I guess I'm a weirdo, but these forums pump up prices incredibly.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

Except if someone have a proof of the contrary, all 16710/16570 with 3186 were delivered with credit card format warranty. All 3185 versions were delivered with a paper warranty.

So if you find a 16710/3186 with paper warranty , or a 16570/3185 with credit card warranty , especially if it's from the same vendor, there's a problem ...

x2 Definite things to pay attention too as well.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Rolex Freak

I wish we could go back in time to when Rolex offered a 1680 and a 1680 with red "Submariner" to find out who thought it was worth it or not. Today we see the reds going for just about twice the price and yet people buy them, collect them and at times, have both. And the end of the day, it will always come down to personal preference, but if you ask me, most people outside of this forum and watch enthusiast think that we are all fools for parting with the amount of money that we do, on the hobby that we all love. Ultimately time will tell.

Those old watches were beat on, and put away wet. These days, lots of these "rare" references make their way directly into a safe, still in plastic. Given sufficient cash, I suspect we could buy a NOS version of any watch produced in the last 15 years. It will be interesting to see if the price trajectory of the last 30 years translates into the next 30.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by travisb

I personally think the premiums being asked for the 3186 are flat out ridiculous but there's always some out there willing to pay.

Thanks Travis.