Video: a question on 5270/ 5170 chronograph second hand

[henryjoeng]

Dear All,

I have come across a thread and video from a 5170 owner in another forum, who noticed a very small pause of the chronograph hand while passing the 0/60 second mark

I found the same behaviour in my 5270 (which share the same CH29 based caliber). It does not happen in each and every time, but in around half of the occasions. The pause is very subtle, but if you deliberately look for it at the 0/60 second mark, it can be seen. Hence I did not notice it after wearing my 5270 for few months, until I read that post.

Recently I met a staff of the PP service center at a horology event and he told me that it is normal for the CH29 caliber to have this very slight pause of the chronograph second hand while passing the 0/60 second mark in some of the time, which may be related to the power diversion to the instantaneous minute counter.

It will be great if other fellow 5270/ 5170 owners can share their experience.

I have attached a video of my 5270 showing the subtle pause of chronograph second hand. The resolution of video can be selected to HD.

https://youtu.be/oU_PPusIFzc

Thanks.
Henry

[henryjoeng]

There is another video of my 5270 showing no subtle pause, for comparison:

https://youtu.be/lYJj6JoyV-Q

[nyc2la]

Don't see it, honestly.

[henryjoeng]

Hi, Stephen,
Thanks for the reply.
Do you mean you can't see the pause in my first video link?
It is indeed very subtle, just a mild "hesitancy" in the smoothly running chronograph second hand. But that hesitancy always happen shortly before the 0/60 second mark if it occurs.
I guess it may be related to the instantaneous jumping of minute counter.

Since one of the new features of this in-house CH29 movement is the smooth running of chronograph second hand by improved gear tooth profile, therefore I don't expect that.

Please kindly see if you find the same in your 5270R, as it may be easier to notice in metal than from a video.

Certainly, I won't deny there is a certain degree of OCD in trying to spot that out

Henry

[AK797]

It does slightly pause just before the 60, but you have such a stunning watch, my number one PCC, that I wouldn't have noticed nor cared.

[enjoythemusic]

Does it keep accurate timing for the watch/chrono, or does this cause a timing error/deviation?

[henryjoeng]

Thanks, Neil.
The pause is so subtle that I didn't notice it after wearing it for months (especially the chronograph is not often activated), until I read a post by another 5170 owner and deliberately looked for it.
I think it is fine and still wear this beautiful 5270 on my wrist.
Will just remind the watchmaker about this issue when the watch is due for a regular service later on.

[henryjoeng]

Hi, enjoythemusic,

Thanks, the watch does keep accurate time and chronograph function.
I guess it is fine, but just want to see if other 5270/5170 owners have similar finding.
As I seldom come across video in the internet, showing the the chronograph second hand in function, running across the 0/60 mark.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

Hi, Stephen,
Thanks for the reply.
Do you mean you can't see the pause in my first video link?
It is indeed very subtle, just a mild "hesitancy" in the smoothly running chronograph second hand. But that hesitancy always happen shortly before the 0/60 second mark if it occurs.
I guess it may be related to the instantaneous jumping of minute counter.

Since one of the new features of this in-house CH29 movement is the smooth running of chronograph second hand by improved gear tooth profile, therefore I don't expect that.

Please kindly see if you find the same in your 5270R, as it may be easier to notice in metal than from a video.

Certainly, I won't deny there is a certain degree of OCD in trying to spot that out

Henry

I see it now in the first video. I was distracted at the grocery store and only looked at the second video.

[enjoythemusic]

Henry, if i may ask, what device are you using to verify the accuracy?

[henryjoeng]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Henry, if i may ask, what device are you using to verify the accuracy?

Two methods:
1. Comparing with computer time in daily basis, while wearing the watch (quite low tech, but realistic performance)

2. Use an iphone app with headphone to "listen" to the movement and calculate the accuracy (not as professional as those desktop timegrapher or the lepsi watch scope, but same principle)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[henryjoeng]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

I see it now in the first video. I was distracted at the grocery store and only looked at the second video.

Thanks, Stephen.
Please kindly see if that also happens in your 5270R occasionally.
From the casual chat with staff of PP service center in my place, it seems to be normal for CH29 chronograph caliber, but just want to check with other 5270 owners as well.
Thanks again.

Henry


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[Passionata]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

Thanks, Stephen.
Please kindly see if that also happens in your 5270R occasionally.
From the casual chat with staff of PP service center in my place, it seems to be normal for CH29 chronograph caliber, but just want to check with other 5270 owners as well.
Thanks again.

Henry


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I can see on you first vid it s noticeable.You may can contact with PP technical dept. (on their website)to address your concerns ,I m sure they will inform you what options you have if there s any.


iPhone/Tapatalk

[Hairdude1]

I see it too

[brettpaul]

I also see the slight hiccup just before the sweep-hand hits the edge of the 6 in 60....would I be bothered, probably given the investment in the watch.

PP Tech may be the best answer to correct the issue (however small it is).

[henryjoeng]

Originally Posted by brettpaul

I also see the slight hiccup just before the sweep-hand hits the edge of the 6 in 60....would I be bothered, probably given the investment in the watch.

PP Tech may be the best answer to correct the issue (however small it is).

Thanks, Brett.
I agree that at this level of timepiece, we would expect it to be perfect.
From my video clip (especially after lowering the play speed to 0.5x or even 0.25x), you can see the hiccup of chronograph second hand happens exactly at the time of instantaneous jumping of minute counter.

That's the same in the video clip of the other 5170 owner posted in another forum.

Hence I suspect it is an intrinsic feature of CH29 caliber related to the instantaneous minute counter, just like the well known drifting of minute counter before the instantaneous minute jump of the Lange Zeitwerk.

I have sent an email to PP Geneva for advice and waiting for reply.

On the other hand, I would like to hear from other 5270/ 5170 owners as well.

Best,
Henry

[conkers]

Never noticed it on any of mine.

[henryjoeng]

Thanks, Roger.
Still waiting for reply from PP Geneva.

[andynj]

Wow! Yes. Just checked my 5170 and there is a definite pause.I kind of like it !

[henryjoeng]

Originally Posted by andynj

Wow! Yes. Just checked my 5170 and there is a definite pause.I kind of like it !

Thanks for checking it on your 5170, Andy.
I suspect the subtle pause present in all ch29 caliber as a cost of the instantaneous minute counter. Just that some pieces are more obvious during some actuation of the chronograph.
If may I ask, is it possible for you to take a video of your 5170 and share it via YouTube?

Best,
Henry


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[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

Thanks, Stephen.
Please kindly see if that also happens in your 5270R occasionally.
From the casual chat with staff of PP service center in my place, it seems to be normal for CH29 chronograph caliber, but just want to check with other 5270 owners as well.
Thanks again.

Henry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Henry,

My 5270r is still sealed so I can't test it.


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[henryjoeng]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

Henry,

My 5270r is still sealed so I can't test it.


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No problem, Stephen. Wish you find the right occasion to cut the seal soon.
Wearing 5270 on wrist will be one of the happiest moment in your life!

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

No problem, Stephen. Wish you find the right occasion to cut the seal soon.

Wearing 5270 on wrist will be one of the happiest moment in your life!

Thanks! I have owned and worn the 5270g-019 (3rd generation, blue dial). It is a wonderful watch!




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[LitzDoc]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

No problem, Stephen. Wish you find the right occasion to cut the seal soon.

Wearing 5270 on wrist will be one of the happiest moment in your life!

Hi Henry.
I have a horse in this race too. I am on schedule to get the 5170G in one month. I am working to get the discussion going on the Purist Watch forum.
I would really like to know the cause of this. I doubt it would be a dealbreaker but you never know.



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[andynj]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

Thanks for checking it on your 5170, Andy.
I suspect the subtle pause present in all ch29 caliber as a cost of the instantaneous minute counter. Just that some pieces are more obvious during some actuation of the chronograph.
If may I ask, is it possible for you to take a video of your 5170 and share it via YouTube?

Best,
Henry


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Just videoed it and you are right - it doesn't happen every time and it is very subtle (probably wouldn't notice unless you were looking for it). Will post the link when I download it.

A

[roma1280]

I have seen this effect myself. I don't think it is a pause as much as it seems like there is an extra notch in the movement of the second hand. This is best seen when videoing in slow motion. I would encourage you to use the slo-mo feature on an iphone to verify.

[andynj]

Originally Posted by henryjoeng

Thanks for checking it on your 5170, Andy.
I suspect the subtle pause present in all ch29 caliber as a cost of the instantaneous minute counter. Just that some pieces are more obvious during some actuation of the chronograph.
If may I ask, is it possible for you to take a video of your 5170 and share it via YouTube?

Best,
Henry


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://youtu.be/STwsuIOKTEE

As ROMA1280 suggested - in slo-mo.

[henryjoeng]

Originally Posted by LitzDoc

Hi Henry.
I have a horse in this race too. I am on schedule to get the 5170G in one month. I am working to get the discussion going on the Purist Watch forum.
I would really like to know the cause of this. I doubt it would be a dealbreaker but you never know.



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Hi, Litz,
I have started a thread in purist a while ago, but seems no 5170/5270 owners there is interested to this.

[henryjoeng]

Thanks, Andy for the video and Mark for your observation.
As the pause/ hiccup/ extra notch is so subtle, you won't notice if not deliberately look for it.
Still waiting for the email reply for PP Geneva.

Best,
Henry

[Starguru]

On the subject, might be of interest, in case you haven't seen, here is a video of how a Lange jumping minute works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qTHFgcb9Ck&t=34s

That's pretty cool. Reason why I love these little gadgets.

I wonder if the Patek mechanism works the same way.