Redials

[NickGC]

Hello everyone.

I'm brand new to this forum and am excited to learn more about a brand that I absolutely love but don't know much about!

I'm curious about redials. Im sure this has been asked before. I've searched the net like crazy but Haven't pulled up exactly the question im trying to ask.

I understand the importance of originality and the dangers of redials and refinished dials.

But i have an odd but curious question. Even if its not original, can it still be considered Authentic? If a rolex dial is replaced with another rolex dial... is it still a rolex? I know that it becomes a Frankenwatch. But is it still considered... authentic? I wouldn't exactly call it fake..

It would certainly affect the price of the watch. But by how much? Collectors wont touch it, and you couldn't ask the same price as an all original. But are there people who aren't too concerned about the originality? As long as its all "authentic" and not fake. But love the look of the watch and want a rolex. The watch would still be a rolex and as robust and awesome as rolex is.


I don't mean to try to justify redials or would ever intentionally buy one. But what do you do if you end up with a redialed watch?


Thanks for your time everyone. And I'm sorry if this is a ridiculous question. But I'm curious!

Nick

[alwayshere]

Look there is probably a few levels of redials:

1) Redialing because existing dial had issues (rust, severe fading, major scratches) and redialed to the same model. Feels like still a kosher Rolex. People won't pay as much for it as its been "touched up by someone other than Rolex"

2) Redialing an existing dial into another model (generally a more expensive model). Argue that this is somewhat unethical if you intend to sell it as the redialed model price. Similarly, if you decided to take a genuine rolex dial for a whole different model, redialed it and dropped it in another model case.

3) Calling a fake dial as "redial" per ebay. Thats obviously unethical.

In terms of price impact, depends on the above three factors. Seller should disclose as appropriate and buyers should do DD as appropriate. The scary part is some seller don't disclose its a redial and sell as untouched to the unknown buyer.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by NickGC

. . .
But i have an odd but curious question. Even if its not original, can it still be considered Authentic? If a rolex dial is replaced with another rolex dial... is it still a rolex? I know that it becomes a Frankenwatch. But is it still considered... authentic? I wouldn't exactly call it fake..

It would certainly affect the price of the watch. But by how much? Collectors wont touch it, and you couldn't ask the same price as an all original. But are there people who aren't too concerned about the originality? As long as its all "authentic" and not fake. But love the look of the watch and want a rolex. The watch would still be a rolex and as robust and awesome as rolex is.

. . .

Changing dials is common. A watch is still "authentic" if it has a new or exchanged proper dial (or hands, etc.), it is just not "original". It does not become a Frankenwatch with a dial exchange. That is reserved for a watch built from a box of mis-matched, but otherwise authentic, parts.

Collectors are usually concerned with originality, which is hard to find. Authentic can be found on every street corner.

Some enthusiasts confuse themselves with collectors and believe that they have to think that way too. Functionality is something that an enthusiast should spend more time thinking about. There is nothing wrong with having a stable of expertly restored, authentic, but not original, functional watches - it all depends on the direction your personal taste/desire drives you.

[NickGC]

The reason i am asking is embarrassing, but i should be honest about mistakes and learn from them.

I just bought a ladies rolex 6917 for my wife. I double checked everything and it looked amazing and in amazing condition. I cross referenced to another 6917 and it matched very well. It was only after i made the purchase that i noticed a few things that weren't right about it. I feel foolish for not noticing before.

The "R" doesn't look right.

And also i noticed theres a gap between the dial and the case on the right hand side.

What im curious of, is if the dial was damaged on the left side(there is bit of flaking at 9) and they off-centered it to try to cover it as best they could. (Thats my optimism speaking). Or its just a really crappy redial....

I'll try to post some pictures here. I'm sure some of you have seen it on ebay already.

Thankfully i can return it. It comes in tomorrow and will be taking it to my watch maker.

[NickGC]

.

[Richard Carver]

Please don't let this stupid originality fetish cost you a good watch. I hate to see someone turn down a nice watch over a 50 dollar dial. A 6917 is not a 6202, no one cares about the dial on a 6917, original dials are plentiful and cheap. Here's a bunch for around 25 bucks each.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...7+dial&_sop=15

The originality fetish is a crutch for noobs, they have no idea what they are doing and figure if its original they can't go wrong. I don't know how many times people ask about ordinary DJs and some hot shoe 'expert' will tell them to not buy it because it has a repaint and the noob does it and costs himself a nice Rolex over a 150 dollar dial. Here's a secret; most 30-60 year old Rolex are not original. :)

If your watch checks out mechanically and aesthetically just get a new dial for it. No one on planet earth that actually know vintage Rolex will care.

< / rant >

[Richard Carver]

That's a very nice looking dial, since it says Date instead of DateJust it is most likely a repaint unless it turns out to be the wrong model number. :) The watch looks good, I wouldn't waste the postage over that dial, enjoy the watch.

Looking those 6917 dials over I believe your watch has an original dial as many of those on sale are designated Date as well. There must be an age cutoff from Date and Datejust. I notice the later DJ dials are marked as chronometers as well. Obviously a movement upgrade at some point.

[NickGC]

Hey thanks alot!
Actually one of the dials in the link you posted, the font matches perfectly. It has a different R, all (3) Es are the same, and the Ps are different. Has anyone seen this particular font before? Is this common?

What do you think these watches should be worth? How much should they go for? This particular one is apparently from 1971.


Yes there is a difference in the "Date". And the "DateJust". Im not exactly sure of the difference or when change was made.

[Richard Carver]

Really don't know that much about the lady DJs, my sis has had a 6917 for over 10 years. The difference will be movement related the later watches will have the chronometer rated movement. Doesn't mean much if properly serviced.

Enjoy that nice watch if your watchmaker signs off on it. :)

[Toronto Soup King]

If that's a redial they did a heckuva job IMO. Some are very difficult to tell - I'd never have suspected my 1012 was a redial if another member here (not the member who sold me the watch without mentioning the redial harrumph) hadn't previously owned the watch and asked Bob Ridley do the work himself.

Looks like an original dial with a bit of age to it, to my eyes. I don't think it's a repaint, I think it's pure original. Nice watch, and a nice gift, good for her.

[swish77]

The dial looks fine to my eye. I'd be surprised if it was a redial for a couple of reasons, but look at that tritium. Great aged patina that looks original.

The gap between the dial and the rehaut probably just means it's missing a bridle, which is an easy fix for any good watchmaker.

[NickGC]

Thanks guys. It doesn't appear to be too polished... im sure it has been, and seems to me to be very well done. To brushing seems to be very crisp.

[NickGC]

Watch maker confirmed its 100%! And shes tickled to death with it. Thanks for everything guys. I have so many questions... so expect to hear from me again! Its my turn to get a rolex now. Lol.

[R.W.T.]

They are all "date" until the 2135 Mvt.

All of the dials fit the same it makes no difference. All the way from 1161 to the 2235 the dials are all the same. No feet and snap over the lip on the movement.

The DateJust nomenclature was just standardized likely because of the popularity of the men's Datejust and they finally didn't want the ladies to keep asking questions about why their Datejust said Date on the dial.

[Richard Carver]

Beautiful watch! Congratulations to you and your lucky wife! Very good to see you Tommy! :)

[spoilsofwar01]

To add to the thread, I have a 5513 dated 1968, its all original however it has a Service dial and hands that would have been changed during its life, ok not the originals but correct, now years on these are beginning to deteriorate, I wont be looking to changing them as there now part of my watches history.

[marcellomatt5]

Service dials can be classified like "redial"?

[madonofrio]

Service dials are redialing to the same model. It does impact value and should be disclosed in a sale.

The post above from member alwayshere covers this very well.

[Vlad]

that 6917 has an amazing dial - I always liked the silver look. What's the serial? should be in the 3 mil or so. If not, then the Omega dial is questionable.

[Vlad]

so, now a question to Tommy, are you implying that there are no omega datejust dials? could be true, I just never thought about this in such terms

[NickGC]

Thanks! Ya i was looking at multiple 6917 and that dial just got me everytime. These are probably my favorite dials. Im gonna have to get me a matching DJ!

Ya the serial is in the 3mil