Rare tudor rose dial without a rose

[harry in montreal]

Have you ever seen a legit dial like this with a rose delete? I think the TswissT also should only read ‘Swiss’, but I’m curious to hear from the forum members

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TUDOR-7928-...gAAOSw2QJa7aTx

[offrdmania]

I zoomed in on my phone and it looks like there could be remnants of a small rose but theres not much left and its hard to tell. That dial is a mess.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

I zoomed in on my phone and it looks like there could be remnants of a small rose but theres not much left and its hard to tell. That dial is a mess.

x2 I think there are remnants of the rose, the rest of the dial is so messed up difficult to see.

[linesiders]

I have not seen one of these without the Rose anywhere but I have seen ones where the rose came off. I have not seen closeups of this dial to make up my mind on it.

T SWISS T silver Prints are for 64-66 7928s with rounded CGs. (more common in 64 to less common as Chapter Ring phased out to standard 60s matte hash dials)

[Richard Carver]

lol, gilt dial with silver print.

[c007]

You have to zoom in to see the little remnants.

[harry in montreal]

Newark, I zoomed. I touched my eyeball to the screen, but I don’t see much. Just snow

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

lol, gilt dial with silver print.

Yes - this was common from 1963 through 1966 on Tudor Subs, Gilt Chapter Ring and markers below the layer in the same fashion as Rolex, but Silver Text on the printing above the layer like some various color Printings on Gilt dial Rolex. A really good looking setup kindasortof a shame Rolex only had it on service dials...

[roh123]

Tudor gilt dials are completely different to what we usually refer to as gilt dials with Rolex. Regarding this one I am sure the rose is just worn off. Condition isn’t great.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by roh123

Tudor gilt dials are completely different to what we usually refer to as gilt dials with Rolex. Regarding this one I am sure the rose is just worn off. Condition isn’t great.

They are as similar as they are different, I'd say ; )

Rolex Gloss -v- Tudor Semi-Gloss
Gilt chapter under the layer as well as the round markers on both but Rolex has much or all of the text the same under the layer.
Generally share same lume and dial manufacturers

[roh123]

Originally Posted by linesiders

They are as similar as they are different, I'd say ; )

Rolex Gloss -v- Tudor Semi-Gloss
Gilt chapter under the layer as well as the round markers on both but Rolex has much or all of the text the same under the layer.
Generally share same lume and dial manufacturers

Agree to disagree. The late 1966ish Tudor gilts are more glossy but overall the surface differs a lot as most Tudors are matte(ish). On a personal note the charm with gilt dials is the mirrorlike gloss instead of the gilt text. No matter if it is the dial plate or paint on top that shows text or chapter ring.

But sure; the definition of gilt is text in precious metal or in gilt dial perspective, text underneath the lacquer. To me they aren’t remotely related in real life experience but I do understand what you mean.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Yes - this was common from 1963 through 1966 on Tudor Subs, Gilt Chapter Ring and markers below the layer in the same fashion as Rolex, but Silver Text on the printing above the layer like some various color Printings on Gilt dial Rolex. A really good looking setup kindasortof a shame Rolex only had it on service dials...

Gilt is gold. The process for a gilt dial is glossy black paint on a brass blank with the text cut into the paint exposing the brass which is then coated with lacquer.

If Tudor painted over a gilt dial with silver paint that is indeed a shame but there have been wars fought over the definition of gilt as relates to Rolex and it never includes silver.

Calling silver paint gilt is really what started the gilt definition fight. Dealers were starting to call silver paint dials gilt simply to be able to get more money from noobs. They were also calling gold painted dials gilt for the same reason.

These practices were called out on the VRF and as a result anything that wasn't the commonly understood definition of gilt among collectors was banned from saying it was on the market.

Of course, YMMV.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Gilt is gold. The process for a gilt dial is glossy black paint on a brass blank with the text cut into the paint exposing the brass which is then coated with lacquer.

If Tudor painted over a gilt dial with silver paint that is indeed a shame but there have been wars fought over the definition of gilt as relates to Rolex and it never includes silver.

Gilt is gold. Gilt dial is a bit of a misnomer because it is is not gold but a process that leaves the gold of the chapter ring exposed in relief as opposed to on top of the base dial paint.

Nobody is saying the Silver Print of the text is gold a/k/a Gilt. It is the Chapter Ring and marker surrounds that are done in the same process is Rolex dials of the time.

I think you are parsing the wrong part of the discussion. No one is stating that Tudor printed the Tudor logo and rose in relief and then printed over top of that in Silver equals "gilt".

Yes - the dial is semi-matte and somewhere in between of the gloss of the 60s Rolex and the Matte finish of the late 60s Rolex / Tudor.

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Calling silver paint gilt is really what started the gilt definition fight. Dealers were starting to call silver paint dials gilt simply to be able to get more money from noobs. They were also calling gold painted dials gilt for the same reason.

These practices were called out on the VRF and as a result anything that wasn't the commonly understood definition of gilt among collectors was banned from saying it was on the market.

Of course, YMMV.

Silver Paint is not gilt paint and I am not saying that, the chapter ring and the marker surrounds are the same process as the Rolex dials of the time, with a slightly different finish.

My recollection from the Gilt War threads ( ; ) ) on VRF was that the difference from gilt to not gilt was on the Rolex Dials above the paint or below. The SILVER PRINT Rolex dials were service dials and that was called out in other threads. Gilt was the process that had the gilt flat or in relief (different dials the relief is more prominent and others just flat, but never above the black paint). Rolex had that process on the chapter ring, marker surrounds, logo, name and many or all other parts of the text. Tudor had the same process on the chapter ring and marker surrounds but not on the fonts, logo, or name.


Cheers

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Gilt is gold. Gilt dial is a bit of a misnomer because it is is not gold but a process that leaves the gold of the chapter ring exposed in relief as opposed to on top of the base dial paint.

Nobody is saying the Silver Print of the text is gold a/k/a Gilt. It is the Chapter Ring and marker surrounds that are done in the same process is Rolex dials of the time.

I think you are parsing the wrong part of the discussion. No one is stating that Tudor printed the Tudor logo and rose in relief and then printed over top of that in Silver equals "gilt".

Yes - the dial is semi-matte and somewhere in between of the gloss of the 60s Rolex and the Matte finish of the late 60s Rolex / Tudor.


Silver Paint is not gilt paint and I am not saying that, the chapter ring and the marker surrounds are the same process as the Rolex dials of the time, with a slightly different finish.

My recollection from the Gilt War threads ( ; ) ) on VRF was that the difference from gilt to not gilt was on the Rolex Dials above the paint or below. The SILVER PRINT Rolex dials were service dials and that was called out in other threads. Gilt was the process that had the gilt flat or in relief (different dials the relief is more prominent and others just flat, but never above the black paint). Rolex had that process on the chapter ring, marker surrounds, logo, name and many or all other parts of the text. Tudor had the same process on the chapter ring and marker surrounds but not on the fonts, logo, or name.


Cheers

Dealers have a thousand arguments to expand the definition of gilt. All designed to increase sales prices. New collectors may not understand why but they all know 'gilt' is valuable. They trust dealers to be honest, sometimes greed wins over honesty.

I would never use gilt to describe any Rolex product with silver or white paint above the post but I am not the Rolex police. When that definition was decided it made no difference on ebay or any other sales market on the internet. People are paying a premium for dials that will not be recognized as gilt dials when they try to sell them. Saying a dial has some gilt over here and some silver paint over there does not make it a gilt dial in my view. But again, YMMV.

[linesiders]

Speaking specifically on Tudor Gilt Dials with gilt tracks and markers and painted text, there are similarities and differences from Rolex Gilt Dials. So yes, a Tudor Gilt Dial is not a Rolex Gilt Dial.

Apologies for the detour, folks...