14060 Questions

[sillo]

Just purchased a 14060 and have a few questions.

First, it's a U18 serial, sold in the Philippines in 1998 according to the warranty papers. The dial is marked T<25, but when exposed to strong light it glows, not as strong or as long as any of my luminova watches though. Is it possible that Tritium from this era will still have a faint glow or could this be a T<25 marked Luminova Dial?

My plan is to leave it in a pitch black room overnight and I guess if it still has that faint glow in the morning it's probably tritium. Do you think that would be a decent confirmation?



Second, it came in a 68.00.2 box with the moon crater outer box. Would this be a version the 14060 could've been sold with? Or is this box from an earlier era? I know boxes aren't an exact science and dealers could potentially put a watch in whatever box they had around.





Thanks for the help.

[El Cascarrabias]

Regarding tritium, I don't believe a strong light will make it glow. Tritium glows on its own without any input from a light source.

The lume may have been replaced if it glows after being exposed to light.

Love the five digit subs!

Congrats!

[sillo]

Thank you!

Light will excite the paint that the tritium is mixed with though.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Thank you!

Light will excite the paint that the tritium is mixed with though.


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Yes, your dial will react to light for a little while longer as long as the paint pigment has phosphors present - it’s near its EOL for Tritium emission though. Strong external light does still affect the phosphorescent paint but it will fade fast.

Of course, some watchmaker could have touched it up but unlikely if the previous owner didn’t care about lume.

Here is an article for you to read through that helps explain it all.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/lu...ir-differences


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[springer]

My belief based on your description is that your "tritium" dial is actually luminova. I believe some of the very late tritium dials were actually luminova but the dials weren't marked properly. I've seen it enough that it can't all be coincidental.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by 77T

Yes, your dial will react to light for a little while longer as long as the paint pigment has phosphors present - it’s near its EOL for Tritium emission though. Strong external light does still affect the phosphorescent paint but it will fade fast.

Of course, some watchmaker could have touched it up but unlikely if the previous owner didn’t care about lume.

Here is an article for you to read through that helps explain it all.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/lu...ir-differences


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Thanks for the response. Under a 10x loupe the lume looks perfect. Very even and level in all the indices so don't think relumed.

Any idea regarding the box?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by springer

My belief based on your description is that your "tritium" dial is actually luminova. I believe some of the very late tritium dials were actually luminova but the dials weren't marked properly. I've seen it enough that it can't all be coincidental.

Thanks Springer. I've read that in a few places from a few reputable sources, so that's what made me start the thread in the first place. It doesn't glow nearly as much as my other luminova watches and dies off quicker. The color of the lume is a slight yellow too. Likely the beginning stages of patina. Would luminova exhibit this too?

[mineral]

I owned the last Tritium dial Explorer I A serial and it glow faintly under the strong light. The glow is different from the other luminova dial that i have.

Do the hands glow too as much as the dial markers?

Originally Posted by sillo38

Just purchased a 14060 and have a few questions.

First, it's a U18 serial, sold in the Philippines in 1998 according to the warranty papers. The dial is marked T<25, but when exposed to strong light it glows, not as strong or as long as any of my luminova watches though. Is it possible that Tritium from this era will still have a faint glow or could this be a T<25 marked Luminova Dial?

My plan is to leave it in a pitch black room overnight and I guess if it still has that faint glow in the morning it's probably tritium. Do you think that would be a decent confirmation?



Second, it came in a 68.00.2 box with the moon crater outer box. Would this be a version the 14060 could've been sold with? Or is this box from an earlier era? I know boxes aren't an exact science and dealers could potentially put a watch in whatever box they had around.





Thanks for the help.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by mineral

I owned the last Tritium dial Explorer I A serial and it glow faintly under the strong light. The glow is different from the other luminova dial that i have.

Do the hands glow too as much as the dial markers?

Hands glow basically the same, I can't notice any discernible difference.

I just stood under a fluorescent light with the 14060 and a 2254 in my basement and walked into a pitch black room. Very light glow from the 14060 while the 2254 looked battery powered.

[77T]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Thanks for the response. Under a 10x loupe the lume looks perfect. Very even and level in all the indices so don't think relumed.



Any idea regarding the box?

Good deal

Forgot about the box -
I bought an Expl. II in 2000 that was an A s/n, and that was the box I got (with the lunar landscape). Can’t recall the box numbers because that was before the ridiculous box fetish.


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[037]

My hunch is it's all Luminova given how narrow the lume channel is in the minute hand. Tritium minute hands are wider in the center channel.

Tritium hands for comparison:

[sillo]

Originally Posted by 77T

Good deal

Forgot about the box -
I bought an Expl. II in 2000 that was an A s/n, and that was the box I got (with the lunar landscape). Can’t recall the box numbers because that was before the ridiculous box fetish.


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Lol thanks, yeah I'm driving myself crazy but half the fun is researching all the stuff so I enjoy it.

[77T]

Wasn’t pointing a finger in your direction


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[Andad]

Your 14060 is in good condition for age.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by 037

My hunch is it's all Luminova given how narrow the lume channel is in the minute hand. Tritium minute hands are wider in the center channel.

Tritium hands for comparison:

Seems like there's all different sizes though. You do bring up a good point I hadn't noticed though. Looking at more the luminova hands all to tend to be the thinner channel, but it does seem hands around the transition are thinner too.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Your 14060 is in good condition for age.

Thank you! I am very happy with the condition, I just have been looking for a long time for a Tritium 2-liner with box and papers and found this one only now to be doubting its tritium.

[037]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Seems like there's all different sizes though.

Luminova is still the narrowest of your four examples. Yours looks just as narrow.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Thank you! I am very happy with the condition, I just have been looking for a long time for a Tritium 2-liner with box and papers and found this one only now to be doubting its tritium.

Luminova will light up like a Christmas tree, you won't have to guess at it.

[sillo]

Heres a shot comparing my 14060 with my Swiss made dial 16570. Same light for same amount of time before putting them in a dark room

14060 on left 16570 on right (the only one you can see)




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[037]

Huh... maybe it's tritium after all. You have the narrowest tritium minute hand I've ever seen.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by 037

Huh... maybe it's tritium after all. You have the narrowest tritium minute hand I've ever seen.

It's a poor representation and it wasn't direct light either. Just normal ambient light in my basement. The 14060 was glowing, just so faintly.

Going to hit it with some more direct light and compare after 10 minutes. Then when I wake up in the morning. If there's still that faint glow while the 16570 is dead I think I can say tritium.

[037]

The only thing close I have is my 14060M, but it's Super Luminova, so a photo of that wouldn't be a 1:1 comparison.

Hitting mine with a bright flashlight reminds me of two things: 1) I miss the color green and 2) I wish the new models glowed green.

[sillo]

I believe I read though that Luminova and Super Luminova are actually the same and there was just a name change when someone else got involved. Don't quote me on that though.

So final test for the night. Hit both watches for 30 seconds.



Intial lights off (1/3 f4.5 unsure ISO forget to check)



5 minutes (1/3 f4.5 ISO 6400)



10 minutes (1/3 f4.5 ISO 6400)


10 minutes (1 f4.5 ISO 6400)



Horrible pictures, but it's late and didn't feel like setting up the tripod and going 100%

[037]

Looks like tritium after all. It should glow like your 16570. Apparently my theory (hypothesis, really) on hands just went out the window!

Didn't know that about Luminova vs. Super. It would be interesting to compare a Swiss dial to mine and see if mine glows any brighter. I've never had both dials at the same time.

[stevedssd]

This is a really useful thread to help illustrate the difference between a Tritium and Luminova dial, especially with some of the later Tritium dials that can stay almost entirely white and the transition period from circa 1997 to 1998 when some T<25 marked dials were filled with Luminova.

When you have a Luminova dial and do the test above it is pretty obvious what you have but when checking a tritium dial on it's own it can glow for a while and make you wonder, as per the OP. The photo's above are a great point of reference, as is the contribution and debate by members, which helps everyone's knowledge.

[jdmi32]

Congrats on acquiring a very nice Sub. That’s a tritium dial. I have a Daytona U1 serial and an Exp II U2 serial. The Daytona barely glows at all, even after exposure to very bright light while the Exp will glow very faintly for a few minutes. I’ve had luminova Rolex watches from the early 2000’s and they glowed much brighter.

[77T]

There was a time when all the work was Tritium - and it was unconfused. Of course, anyone could produce it and use that term “Tritium” as it was a basic radio isotope of the Hydrogen element. As we know it replaces Radium in the mid-20th century

Then a man named Nemoto in Japan compounded a non radioactive compound to excite phosphorous paint when it had been exposed to light.

From an article:

A Japanese man named Kenzo Nemoto started a luminous paint business in 1941. He was contracted to equip Japan’s military aircraft and submarines with glowing gauges and meters during World War II.

After the war, there wasn’t as much demand for this service so Mr. Nemoto had to find other uses for his luminous product. That’s when he began going to homes to paint the hands and markers of clocks, and later moved onto applying the paint to watches.

By 1993, Nemoto & Co. was born, and went on to further developed new phosphorescent pigment technology. This officially became known to the watch industry as LumiNova in 1993. The invention was patented by Nemoto and is licensed to other watch brands and manufacturers.

In the same year (1993), RC Tritec AG was founded as a Swiss based company that holds the licensing rights to produce and distribute LumiNova under the registered name Super-LumiNova.

So is it Swiss or Japanese?

If you see Super in front of the LumiNova, then it’s supposed to be 100% Swiss made. Although, be wary of watch brands that are careless about the history of LumiNova and Super-LumiNova. Also, it’s easily copied by some factories in Asia and unscrupulously marketed as Super-LumiNova.

Bottom line it’s all supposed to be the same - but not all lume is made the same way.


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[mineral]

Originally Posted by 037

Looks like tritium after all. It should glow like your 16570. Apparently my theory (hypothesis, really) on hands just went out the window!



Didn't know that about Luminova vs. Super. It would be interesting to compare a Swiss dial to mine and see if mine glows any brighter. I've never had both dials at the same time.

I have both luminova Swiss only dial on my both Gmt and when compare to other super luminova dial, they glow very bright and pretty much at same brightness. So I would say both luminova and super luminova are the same.


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[037]

77T and mineral - great info, thanks!

I've always been under the impression that Luminova (really, LumiNova but that always looks odd to me) didn't emit the same lux as Super. If they are indeed the same basic formulas but differing only in their countries of origin then that is indeed a valuable data point.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by jdmi32

Congrats on acquiring a very nice Sub.

Thanks! and thanks to everyone who contributed

For final confirmation this morning I woke up in my pitch black windowless room with my eyes fully adjusted. 16570 was visible, but barely, while the 14060 had a faint even glow that was brighter than the Explorer.

Think we can confirm it is indeed a late tritium dial with some life left in it.

If anyone has any other info I'd love to hear it.