Given up on trying for a Rolex... please help me decide on my first big boy watch.

[Hogtown Fatty]

After a few years of trying, I've officially given up on Rolex- the whole situation is utter bs. They've made it not fun. It's crazy that it's no longer enough to have +/-$10k ready to drop on a watch. I'm not dropping $100k+ on jewellery and DJ's @ an AD to earn the "privilege" of getting to buy an overhyped $10k ss tool/sport watch. Sorry, but there is no justification... "they're kept aside to reward faithful customers"- do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Yes, of course I'm bitter about it, but also finally over it.

Anyways, I've been looking at some alternatives and would appreciate your opinions, as well as some further recommendations worth looking into. I'm not looking for anything in specific, just a nice durable watch I can use day in, day out and keep it for life.

JLC Memovox Tribute to Deep Sea. Aesthetically this watch is a banger, imo. Super clean, minimal, and stealthy look which I really dig, plus JLC is of a legendary heritage.

http://www.my-watchsite.com/10677-la...o-deep-sea.jpg

Blancpain Fifty Fathoms mil-spec. Aesthetically quite similar to the above, albeit with a slightly busier dial.

https://www.blancpain.com/sites/defa.../images/pr.jpg

I like the above two watches a lot. The aesthetic really appeals to me, as does the history behind them. Plus I like their sort of quirky vibe. Sadly it seems like the bracelet/strap on both was an afterthought, as seems to be the case with many watches. How do the two watches compare?

Vacheron Constantin Overseas Chronograph (the panda variant). I'm confused about this watch. If I didn't know of the 15202 and 5711, I'd love the Overseas a lot more than I do, but knowing of the aforementioned watches simply makes me feel like I'm settling for a failed/regurgitated Genta design. The bracelet isn't as strong (imo) as either the AP or Patek and the bezel seems like a poor attempt at establishing a unique aesthetic. That said, there's still something I very much enjoy about the way this watch looks- particularly the panda variant I'm interested in.

Photo 1: https://cdn.gearpatrol.com/wp-conten...l-ambiance.jpg

Photo 2: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/77...09e2d05566.jpg

Panerai PAM 249. The visuals of this piece evoke a strong sense of nostalgia for me due to the similarity to my grandfathers watches which I grew up around. None of them were by any notable marque, but they all had that old world look which I love. I also feel the 249 is one of very few note worthy pieces Panerai has produced since the late 90's.

Photo: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3jIAA...MWP/s-l640.jpg

Omega Speedmaster. I like Speedmasters. I like them a lot (from an aesthetic standpoint). A lot a lot. In fact, I think it's a much more handsome watch than the Daytona. But-- and I'm sorry for this--, it'll always (to me) feel like settling/admitting defeat. Couldn't get a Rolex, so went Omega. I know there's no shortage of literature on the whole Rolex vs. Omega thing, but I often come away confused and feel I've learned nothing at all... objectively speaking, is Rolex really the superior watch? Better movement, nicer finishing, more durable? or are they on the same level? I of course understand Omega's aren't as desirable as the popular ss models.

The thing I'm worried about with some of the above options is that they seem like novelty pieces, not suited for everyday use (i.e. the 249, JLC, and Blancpain). What do you guys think?

Of course an AP 15202 or Patek 5711 would be lovely, but everyone knows the waits on those are as bad if not worse than those for a Pepsi or Daytona. I have even considered an FPJ CB, but know it's likely not the most obtainable watch either. Certain AP and Lange models interest me as well. Ideally would like to stay under $20-25k. I have read many bad things about AP though and that worries me... they don't seem to be very robust and seem to spend quite a bit of time in repair shops.

I could go the Rolex route actually and get an Explorer II, Submariner, or older GMT II, but none of those make me go quite as wild as the 50th anni Sea-Dweller (SD43), Daytona, or newer Pepsi GMT. Yes, all "hype" watches, but that aside, they're the ones I really like the best. I was also considering going the PM route, specifically for an Oysterflex Daytona 116518, but I'm not sure I want to have that much tied up in my first watch. Yes, this is my very first "real"/big boy watch. I've chose to go without anything on my wrist for the past several years rather than to wear just anything. I know that might sound super snobby and elitist, but I promise you it doesn't come from such a place. It's just a personal thing, having been deeply into watches since I was a kid.

Please do let me know of any other alternatives you think might be worth considering.

[subtona]

40MM Explorer II polar is wonderful and very attainable.
Older Gold sub w blue dial is a bargain

Speedy pro.

FPJ Chrono bleu is my recommend.

[mps354]

The speedmaster is the watch that got me into this hobby - I purchased it for myself out of grad school, and although it’s the least expensive option on your list, it was by far the most extravagant item I ever allowed myself to buy up until that time (and prices were lower back then). I ended up (foolishly) selling that watch as I moved on to Rolex, AP, Lange, Patek, etc. This past month, I bought a speedmaster again - nothing vintage or special, just a standard speedy with Hesalite crystal - and it’s one of my favorite watches in my collection. My advice would be to take your time, as your taste in watches will evolve, but go with the speedy now and keep it forever - you’ll always want one whether you have a 1 watch collection or a safe full of them.

The only legitimate knock on the speedmaster is limited water resistance, though I never had any trouble with mine. If, for some reason, you are constantly in the water and absolutely need greater resistance, you can’t go wrong with a Pepsi 16710 or, as Gus suggested, a polar exp 2 ref 16570.

As for the speedmaster, don’t think of it as admitting defeat. I actually prefer it to the Daytona (and I own a daytona) due to better legibility, a matte dial, better heritage, and versatility (I don’t know of any other watch that looks equally good on leather or a steel bracelet). And, it’s a fraction of the price and immediately available.

Who knows what will eventually happen to the watch market - I cringe every time I come across a watch as an investment post on the forums - but if forced to guess, I’d say there will be a better/easier time in the future to pick up a coveted ss Rolex or Nautilus from an AD. Until then, enjoy the speedy.

[wisguy]

If you want a Rolex get a Rolex, you can have the Pepsi or Daytona tomorrow if you pay market prices, well within your 20k to 25k range.

All the others are much cheaper and seem to be all over the place, unless you plan to buy more than one (only way to spend the budget really).

If you don't want to pay the premium get another Rolex, Batman is nicer than Pepsi and the premium is not so steep (getting worse everyday) or get a regular GMT or a Submariner and be happy.

The speedy is great, I've owned three of them, get the 60th anniversary edition for around 7k and a Batman, pocket the change!

[Jack T]

Be patient and get the Rolex you want.

[tyler1980]

VC overseas chrono. I love the reverse panda. Tried it on yesterday actually.

Cant go wrong with a speedy either. IMO i think its actually a nicer watch than my Rolex's. Lower price too.

I would also look at the grand seiko diver. I would pick that over a fifty fathoms or a sub or a JLC diver any day

[Rsdecker971]

Originally Posted by jack t

be patient and get the rolex you want.

+1

[spoilsofwar01]

Originally Posted by rsdecker971

+1

+2

[Hogtown Fatty]

Originally Posted by Jack T

Be patient and get the Rolex you want.

I've been patient for three years now. I really don't care nearly enough to invest another ounce of energy into obtaining a watch. They will be more readily available someday and when that day comes I'll snatch one up. Until then I'll live happily with some other awesome watch.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

I've been patient for three years now. I really don't care nearly enough to invest another ounce of energy into obtaining a watch. They will be more readily available someday and when that day comes I'll snatch one up. Until then I'll live happily with some other awesome watch.

not to sidetrack the thread, but im curious. What could you possibly have been waiting for three years for at this point? The scarcity is about a year for the US at least, don't know about canada but US AD's are literally a short drive across the border and almost everything was available a year ago w/o much of a wait, and two years ago availability even better.

The Daytona C has not been out 3 years yet, so it cant be that. March 2016. But i don't know anyone who got on a WL on day 1 who doesnt have it by now unless you have an exceptionally bad AD. If thats the case, i would suggest searching out a different AD.

[Hogtown Fatty]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

not to sidetrack the thread, but im curious. What could you possibly have been waiting for three years for at this point? The scarcity is about a year for the US at least, don't know about canada but US AD's are literally a short drive across the border and almost everything was available a year ago w/o much of a wait, and two years ago availability even better.

The Daytona C has not been out 3 years yet, so it cant be that. March 2016. But i don't know anyone who got on a WL on day 1 who doesnt have it by now unless you have an exceptionally bad AD. If thats the case, i would suggest searching out a different AD.

i got on the daytona list @ three different ad's here in toronto (damiani, raffi, and la difference) right when they came out-- okay, so god forgive me, not *exactly* three years to this day...--, same when sd43 came out. haven't gotten a call from any of them, not even for the sd43. while i was waiting on those i looked elsewhere and was told straight up those watches were only for big spenders, which i'm not- i just want a watch. but i've now learned that even getting on a list doesn't mean a thing and won't yield a watch.

define "almost everything" when you say that's what was available a year ago, because it sure as heck wasn't the case over here (toronto), or at any of the ad's i visited in the states/europe. actually, i guess you're right... almost everything (ym2, ex2, no date sub, black gmt, pm's, dd, etc.) was available, but i unfortunately was/am after the two or three more popular pieces. don't really care about the other stuff. why should i settle for a rolex other than the one i want? if i can't have it, i'll just go another route (which i now am). was just in vienna and yeah, saw a couple ss pieces in stock-- ex2 and blue sub--, but that's it. and a year ago i saw even less ss available. best i've seen here in toronto was a polar ex2 and black bezel gmt- not interested in either. a year ago the situation was not much different anywhere i went.

lucky you.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

i got on the daytona list @ three different ad's here in toronto (damiani, raffi, and la difference) right when they came out-- okay, so god forgive me, not *exactly* three years to this day...--, same when sd43 came out. haven't gotten a call from any of them, not even for the sd43. while i was waiting on those i looked elsewhere and was told straight up those watches were only for big spenders, which i'm not- i just want a watch. but i've now learned that even getting on a list doesn't mean a thing and won't yield a watch.

define "almost everything" when you say that's what was available a year ago, because it sure as heck wasn't the case over here (toronto), or at any of the ad's i visited in the states/europe. actually, i guess you're right... almost everything (ym2, ex2, no date sub, black gmt, pm's, dd, etc.) was available, but i unfortunately was/am after the two or three more popular pieces. don't really care about the other stuff. why should i settle for a rolex other than the one i want? if i can't have it, i'll just go another route (which i now am). was just in vienna and yeah, saw a couple ss pieces in stock-- ex2 and blue sub--, but that's it. and a year ago i saw even less ss available. best i've seen here in toronto was a polar ex2 and black bezel gmt- not interested in either. a year ago the situation was not much different anywhere i went.

lucky you.

ive seen BLNR, Hulk, SD43, all the LN professionals in US AD's 1 to 1.5 years ago. Available and for sale no strings. In Texas mostly as thats where i go a lot, but it was not that uncommon until fairly recently.

All i am saying, is getting relevant good AD recommendations from people who live relatively close to you or in a drivable distance may be worth exploring. Not going to help much at the present moment, but its going to get better in time. You were dealing with AD's who were not selling you watches when they were way easier to get so i would avoid them going forward.

2 years ago waiting 2 years for a BLNR (for example) would be unthinkable. It may be the case today, but thats a new development. I think you just got hosed by the AD's. Daytonas have always been tough, but almost everyone with a halfway decent AD has gotten one by now if they got on a list in 2016.

[mr_gray]

i think the cringe bit about Omega for you is warranted. Overall they continually blow it with an ever changing range. But the speedmaster is an absolute classic and has nothing to do with the ever changing line up of chunky dive watches. If you are yet to dip your toe into watch ownership and the speedmaster excites you, buy a SMP and enjoy the ride!

But if there is a watch that captivates you (BLRO maybe), and you've got the money, make a move fella. Time waits for no man. The sooner you buy it the sooner you get happy. Pretty simple. If you buy another watch out of spite as you seem to indicate you want to do (JLC), you're going to be back in the same position of lusting after whatever but with less money as you try and flip a watch that isn't as easy to resell as some others might be.

go for it!

[Frits1980]

I have a couple of the watches you mentioned. The MIL-spec, Royal oak, BLRO, SD43, Daytona and Speedmaster. The Speedmaster is one of the most iconic watches out there. I think your issue is the price. It is kind of cheap and although i hate to admit it i probably would like it even a little bit more if it was more expensive. Yesss, i know you can go vintage or buy more expensive orange hands/limited/discontinued models but they look the same to me so why pay more then the current moonwatch price. Doesnt make any sense but none does with this hobby.

All i can say is that i wear and enjoy my Speedy more then the hyped Rolex models you mentioned. Forget about the Blancpains and Royal oaks for now.
I believe you want to spent 10K on your first watch? Get the moonwatch + some straps + an Explorer 214270. I think you cannot go wrong with those 2, it would be a great way to start in my opinion.

[1William]

Of the choices you listed the only watch I would consider would be a Speed Master. The others are fine but when you do your research you will see that each, even pre-owned, is overpriced and will require a commitment of funds that, to me, does not reflect value. I have owned numerous Speed Masters and have always bought right so any move away does not hurt. I would find an interesting example of the Speed Master that you really like, Ultraman, or a base model. Get a couple of leather straps and NATO's and call it a day until the market settles. Once the bubble has some air let out of it or bursts then you will find what you want from Rolex. Until then you have a great watch in the Speed Master that will carry you. Once you wear it for a while, it might be a keeper, even when you get some Rolex watches.

[brandrea]

From a pure aesthetic standpoint, I really like the Fifty Fathoms.

As mentioned above they get crushed in terms of resale value, but if you don’t care about that and plan on keeping it, that’s where I’d go.

They also have a storied history

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by brandrea

From a pure aesthetic standpoint, I really like the Fifty Fathoms.

As mentioned above they get crushed in terms of resale value, but if you don’t care about that and plan on keeping it, that’s where I’d go.

They also have a storied history

Limited edition fifty fathom models have faired well. Just look at the ocean commitments and no radiation models as examples.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by brandrea

From a pure aesthetic standpoint, I really like the Fifty Fathoms.

As mentioned above they get crushed in terms of resale value, but if you don’t care about that and plan on keeping it, that’s where I’d go.

They also have a storied history

i struggle with the continuity of the story.... its been bought and sold for the name several times.

I like the the brand, but the story is what a lot of people buy into and its not the best. Who even owned it when the 50 fathoms came out? no idea.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i struggle with the continuity of the story.... its been bought and sold for the name several times.

I like the the brand, but the story is what a lot of people buy into and its not the best. Who even owned it when the 50 fathoms came out? no idea.

I believe they were more used for military/naval use. Rolex (rather intelligently) focused on the civilian market, which is why they took off and Blancpain stagnated.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i struggle with the continuity of the story.... its been bought and sold for the name several times.

I like the the brand, but the story is what a lot of people buy into and its not the best. Who even owned it when the 50 fathoms came out? no idea.

I hear you Tyler ... the story line has changed through ownership

[vman]

Glad that you don't fall for the Rolex craze. Over the years I've tried all the models you've put put above sans Deep Sea Memovox. Would stick with Speedmaster or VC Overseas. Here is why.

You simply cannot go wrong with the Speedmaster. No sir, you can't. It is a fabulous watch for all around wear. Is it the best chrono? Probably not. Is it the most accurate. No. But the price is awesome and the watch can take a beating if you're subscribed to the notion of tool watches that *must* participate in various manly activities.

If you have extra cash, then please move on to VC Overseas. It is solid offering from the top tier manufacture. Never had it but tried it on numerous times--loved the feeling. However, this is NOT a *tool* watch. I'd never let it near a shovel, pliers, screwdrivers, or anything any activities that require moderate amounts of torque. This watch is pricey, but if you buy it pre-owned, you won't lose a lot if you don't like it.

Blancpain is a nice watch but the original model never sat well on my wrist and I passed. If you want a mil-spec, you'll have to pay extra and, personally, I am not sure if that model deserves to be in the higher price range.

That said all of these models are good alternatives to Rolex. I'd buy them pre-owned with warranty still intact.

[Peterandwatches]

I think a Rolex is a good starting point. I lean more toward just waiting a few years than finding a substitute. These are not essential goods.

[Hogtown Fatty]

lot more speedy love than i thought there'd be. will look into them some more. i really like the new ultraman, but also a fan of the base version (and several other editions).
please don't think of this as me going another route out of spite for rolex- i genuinely am over the brand after trying for three years to get one. i could of gotten a sub, ex2, or even batman at a few ad's over the past few years, but didn't want to settle on a watch i wasn't absolutely crazy about. i really don't care that i can't get the rolex i want-- it's just a watch-- and refuse to pay over retail. i'd hardly call any of the watches listed in my op second rate watches, or say that getting one is like settling. i did feel like an omega would be settling, but many of your posts here have started to change my mind. i've always preferred the speedy aesthetic to that of the daytona, but felt it wasn't as cool a watch to own.

[vman]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

lot more speedy love than i thought there'd be. will look into them some more. i really like the new ultraman, but also a fan of the base version (and several other editions).
please don't think of this as me going another route out of spite for rolex- i genuinely am over the brand after trying for three years to get one. i could of gotten a sub, ex2, or even batman at a few ad's over the past few years, but didn't want to settle on a watch i wasn't absolutely crazy about. i really don't care that i can't get the rolex i want-- it's just a watch-- and refuse to pay over retail. i'd hardly call any of the watches listed in my op second rate watches, or say that getting one is like settling. i did feel like an omega would be settling, but many of your posts here have started to change my mind. i've always preferred the speedy aesthetic to that of the daytona, but felt it wasn't as cool a watch to own.

Don't worry—none of the watches you've listed are second rate compared to Rolex. All strong offerings for true horology aficionados. Crappy re-sell value is in your favor because if you buy any of those models pre-owned, you'll end up with a great value all around.

Just out of curiosity, have you considered IWC 7 day? The older models, 5001, are pretty affordable now. New references, 5007 have better movements though.

Speedy's a cool watch to own. Sold mine because needed funds for other ventures.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

lot more speedy love than i thought there'd be. will look into them some more. i really like the new ultraman, but also a fan of the base version (and several other editions).
please don't think of this as me going another route out of spite for rolex- i genuinely am over the brand after trying for three years to get one. i could of gotten a sub, ex2, or even batman at a few ad's over the past few years, but didn't want to settle on a watch i wasn't absolutely crazy about. i really don't care that i can't get the rolex i want-- it's just a watch-- and refuse to pay over retail. i'd hardly call any of the watches listed in my op second rate watches, or say that getting one is like settling. i did feel like an omega would be settling, but many of your posts here have started to change my mind. i've always preferred the speedy aesthetic to that of the daytona, but felt it wasn't as cool a watch to own.

I avoided the speedy for a long time, but Its way better in real life than pics and when i decided to give it a chance i was hooked. I much prefer the regular speedy pro to the ultraman... but then again i have never seen the ultraman IRL

Anyway i liked the sapphire version and bought that one. A lot of purists prefer the hestilite but to me i would rather have the durability.

[yessir69]

Can’t go wrong with a SpeedyPro.

[Txkill]

Have you considered Grand Seiko? The SBGC chrono is unique and awesome...they also have some other great offerings. If you don’t want what every Tom Dick and Harry has, GS is it.

[Hogtown Fatty]

can someone link me to the "regular"/basic speedy pro? what's the price on that one? there's so many models available it's a bit confusing. which is best version to get? might do the speedy, which will leave me with a good chunk and some patience to get something else as well.

[codecow]

I love Speedmasters. My 60th is one of my favorite watches.

[vman]

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

can someone link me to the "regular"/basic speedy pro? what's the price on that one? there's so many models available it's a bit confusing. which is best version to get? might do the speedy, which will leave me with a good chunk and some patience to get something else as well.

What you want to get is the "moonwatch" reference in the most pure form: Manual winding + hesalite crystal.

https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-o...31130423001005

This "bare bones" version will set you $3.5-4K back depending on where you buy. I'd buy brand new at an AD for the peace of mind or from a trusted seller here if you want to save some $. Honestly, get the best Speedy you can afford now in terms of warranty, condition, etc. If it stops speaking to you, put it in a drawer and let it sit there, then bring it back after a few weeks. This is the watch that some people ended up buying twice ;-)