Help with GMT-Master 1675

[GeoffS]

Hi folks, I am interested in buying a 1966 GMT-Master 1675 and the watch in question comes with box and papers. It's a 1.3m serial but was changed to a service case at some point later (so now with a 4.3m serial). The service record describing the move to the service case is not there. Several other service records dating the change of dial, hands, bezel etc are there - but not the case change.

The dealer tells me that the way to link the watch to both cases is through the unique movement number (general movement number + 5 digit number unique to the specific movement). This unique movement number appears on the original paperwork and COSC certificate, which lists the 1.3m case, and also on later service papers which lists the 4.3m service case number.

All sound ok? Anything to be concerned about?

[Dan S]

So this is a 1966 1675 with service case, dial, hands, and bezel? You are apparently wanting to verify that the case was exchanged by Rolex, but I think it's a bit of a moot point. A watch with service parts is a watch with service parts. I don't think that a paper connection to the original case number will add much value. There's still nothing original but the movement.

If you like the way it looks, and you're ok with the price, go ahead and buy it. Could be a very nice piece to wear. But don't expect you'll be able to re-sell it someday as a collectible piece, regardless of the paperwork.

[twnturbo]

Yea don't over pay for it ,those B & p don't add any value imo

[GeoffS]

Thanks guys. When I made my initial enquiry to the dealer I was looking to check that the paperwork wasn’t actually referring to 2 different watches, but the movement number links them. This is definitely not priced at the crazy box and papers end of the 1675 spectrum, and in fact I would say that it is more priced at the no box or papers price range, so yes - it’s all about how the watch looks and wears really.

[Dan S]

I think that most people would expect it to be priced SUBSTANTIALLY lower than the "no box and papers price range" (which might be about $15k these days) because of the service parts. A service dial alone tends to subtract about 1/3 of the value (speaking very roughly), from what I am generally seeing. The service case also hurts the value significantly.

Again, I have no problem with this watch, or watches with service parts in general. My comments are only with respect to value as a collectible. And I apologize if I'm overstepping my bounds, since I realize that you did not ask about value.

[OliverD]

Just as an FYI you would expect this watch to be priced significantly cheaper (like half) than all period correct 1675 regardless of whether they have box and papers.

Edit: What Dan S said.

[Tom1675]

Don't pass on anything at the right price but this one sounds like a pass at any dealers' price. :)

[GeoffS]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the pricing advice. But would it really be half the no box or paper spread? That would make it incredibly cheap. Is that right? Here are some pics of the watch in question. Now I am very interested in what you think it is worth.

[Dan S]

Value is extremely subjective, especially in this case. I hope I don’t get flamed for going out on a limb, but for me, it would be in the $8k-$9k range. I’m not sure the dial is even tritium. Others might pay more if they don’t value originality so much. The papers add little for me on this watch.

[Tom1675]

Luminova service dial. Nothing on this watch is original, add bracelet to your list of replaced parts... I am not sure its worth $8-$9k.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

Luminova service dial. Nothing on this watch is original, add bracelet to your list of replaced parts... I am not sure its worth $8-$9k.

I think we are probably on the same page. I wouldn't buy it for that price either, but I think someone might. Every time a legit GMT or Sub shows up on the forum with service parts, I am surprised how many people say that they like it and would buy it. And at the moment, people just don't really have much in the way of options for a legit GMT of any age below $10k.

[Juhuatai]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think we are probably on the same page. I wouldn't buy it for that price either, but I think someone might. Every time a legit GMT or Sub shows up on the forum with service parts, I am surprised how many people say that they like it and would buy it. And at the moment, people just don't really have much in the way of options for a legit GMT of any age below $10k.

8-9k sounds right to me since it has the box and papers. I think a full service GMT with everything swapped out is like 7-7.5? I Think the box and papers might add another 1k in this market simply because of the frenzy around having complete sets...

Also there are a lot of people who like the look of a vintage watch with fully functional lume and brand new parts. I've always thought service part watches have been a little undervalued in the past 2 years given the insane upwards trend of all original pieces.

[Tom1675]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think we are probably on the same page. I wouldn't buy it for that price either, but I think someone might. Every time a legit GMT or Sub shows up on the forum with service parts, I am surprised how many people say that they like it and would buy it. And at the moment, people just don't really have much in the way of options for a legit GMT of any age below $10k.

Totally agree with all of this. T

[OliverD]

I've just seen it on Chrono24 and they're asking £11,490 (circa $14,000).

I wouldn't go anywhere near it at that price.

If you're unsure you should contact a local dealer and ask them what price they will offer you for a 1675 with a replaced case, dial, hands and bracelet. I'd be surprised if they offered you more than £5,500.