Modified Watch, is it legitamate? Newbie, seeking advice.

[robdoc29]

Hello,

Happy almost New Year!

I am new to the forums. I have wanted a Rolex for a while and today my grandfather surprised me with a pre-owned Rolex submariner 16610, P serial.

He bought it from a wholesaler in Downtown Los Angeles, not from a Jewelry store, more of a private office in a skyscraper type place.

The person seems to be legitimate, he claims 37 years in the business, and has had good reviews online. The watch came with a certificate, receipt, 14 days return policy, 3 year warranty from him, and a promise to buy it back at $300-$400 lower than what he sold it to me if I want to sell it within the next 2 years.

All of this points to legitimacy, however the watch itself has been modified. The Jeweler says the watch is all genuine but the dial has had diamonds placed onto it by him and the bezel has had a blue colored insert installed. He was upfront about these changes.

However, the one change that makes me question the quality of the modification is the position of the Dive bezel's marker stone. It appears slightly off-center on top of the arrow, to the upper right. The jewler claims this is a genuine bezel that was repainted, replaced and all appears at it should.

I have two questions:

1) Does this watch look correct? Is the stone on the arrow marker incorrect?

2) Will the two modifications drastically hurt the value of the watch?

My grandfather purchased this for $7,950.

I am asking because because I am not sure if I should go back and ask for a refund and get a more original watch or to keep this one? To be honest, I really do enjoy the color and the after market diamonds. I do not think I would sell this watch, so I may be ok with it hurting the resale. However, I don't want to have people accuse me of wearing a "fake" after spending money that could nearly buy me a unmodified one.

The Jeweler was honest about the work done to the watch so I am not mentioning him, but I just wanted feedback from the people on the forum.

I would appreciate any feedback!

Sorry for the strange post!

Photos at link as I was having difficulty uploading: https://imgur.com/a/7Nl2vYj

[robdoc29]

Photos were uploaded to imgur because I was having trouble uploading, sorry!

https://imgur.com/a/7Nl2vYj

[freefly]

Originally Posted by robdoc29

Does this watch look correct?

No. The dial is counterfeit (the diamonds may or may not be genuine), and the bezel insert is aftermarket junk.

Originally Posted by robdoc29

Is the stone on the arrow marker incorrect?

Yes. The pip is part of the bezel insert, which is not genuine.

Originally Posted by robdoc29

Will the two modifications drastically hurt the value of the watch?

Drastically? No, as a genuine dial an insert would put it back to original. Both would certainly set you back a few bucks, but not too "drastic" an amount in relation to its entirety.
However, it's value is less as it sits now, than if it were to be restored to it's original configuration, IMO (at least to most folks).

[tuffness9999]

Looks like there were aftermarket modifications made to make it look like a much more expensive Rolex Sub. Think of it this way, someone took a BMW 3 series and stuck on an aftermarket grill and front bumper in order to make it look like a M3.

You and everyone else who is familiar with BMWs will know it's not an M3. Under the hood, it's a BMW and it will cost you $$ to go back to original BMW condition.

At this point, its all about your own preference. Do you keep the gift the way you got it or do you go return it and buy yourself an "original"?

Originally Posted by robdoc29

Hello,

Happy almost New Year!

I am new to the forums. I have wanted a Rolex for a while and today my grandfather surprised me with a pre-owned Rolex submariner 16610, P serial.

He bought it from a wholesaler in Downtown Los Angeles, not from a Jewelry store, more of a private office in a skyscraper type place.

The person seems to be legitimate, he claims 37 years in the business, and has had good reviews online. The watch came with a certificate, receipt, 14 days return policy, 3 year warranty from him, and a promise to buy it back at $300-$400 lower than what he sold it to me if I want to sell it within the next 2 years.

All of this points to legitimacy, however the watch itself has been modified. The Jeweler says the watch is all genuine but the dial has had diamonds placed onto it by him and the bezel has had a blue colored insert installed. He was upfront about these changes.

However, the one change that makes me question the quality of the modification is the position of the Dive bezel's marker stone. It appears slightly off-center on top of the arrow, to the upper right. The jewler claims this is a genuine bezel that was repainted, replaced and all appears at it should.

I have two questions:

1) Does this watch look correct? Is the stone on the arrow marker incorrect?

2) Will the two modifications drastically hurt the value of the watch?

My grandfather purchased this for $7,950.

I am asking because because I am not sure if I should go back and ask for a refund and get a more original watch or to keep this one? To be honest, I really do enjoy the color and the after market diamonds. I do not think I would sell this watch, so I may be ok with it hurting the resale. However, I don't want to have people accuse me of wearing a "fake" after spending money that could nearly buy me a unmodified one.

The Jeweler was honest about the work done to the watch so I am not mentioning him, but I just wanted feedback from the people on the forum.

I would appreciate any feedback!

Sorry for the strange post!

Photos at link as I was having difficulty uploading: https://imgur.com/a/7Nl2vYj

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[PRSWILL]

As mentioned- this dial and bezel are bad- they are counterfeit- not just a re-paint. I get it to an AD and open it up. I am betting the entire watch is fake.

[tigey]

Grandfathers always give people fake watches

[watchnut100]

I’d be very surprised if any of the watch is genuine

[robdoc29]

Hello everyone. Thank you for your replies.

I took the watch to 2 reputable watchmakers and a reputable second hand dealer. It was opened once by one of them and I took photos to show to the others. They determined that it is a genuine watch underneath with an after-market dial and poor quality insert.

I made an appointment with the wholesaler who sold this to my grandfather tomorrow. I want to return it and buy a genuine watch. However, at this point, I am unsure as to what my grandfather will do or how things will go.

I am just curious. Is it very costly to purchase legitimate insert and dial and have a watchmaker install it?

[freefly]

Originally Posted by robdoc29

I am just curious. Is it very costly to purchase legitimate insert and dial and have a watchmaker install it?

If you source them yourself, you can expect to pay around $400 - $600+ just for the parts (depending on condition/vintage/etc.), and maybe an additional $100 for the labor at an indy watchmaker.
Or, you can send it in to a Rolex Service Center (RSC) for factory service, and they will retrofit a proper dial, hands, and insert, as well as correct any other issues. With a full service, that could run you well north of $1000. YMMV...

[keithl]

Return it, sell it back, whatever, immediately. You can buy a nice 16610 for quite a bit less than that thing cost. Yuck. I will add, I have a hard time believing this is a true story.

[zaydans]

The mods are poorly done. I’d have it opened up if I were you to check the guys are at least genuine. Personally I’d return it and ask for a refund.

[PRSWILL]

Originally Posted by keithl

Return it, sell it back, whatever, immediately. You can buy a nice 16610 for quite a bit less than that thing cost. Yuck. I will add, I have a hard time believing this is a true story.

Agree..... smells like fish.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by robdoc29

Hello everyone. Thank you for your replies.

I took the watch to 2 reputable watchmakers and a reputable second hand dealer. It was opened once by one of them and I took photos to show to the others.

Please post photos of the movement - especially balance wheel area
Thanks