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shaggy · 28 March 2009, 06:48 PM

just looking at tools latest posting of the pallet & escape wheel and wondered why dont watchmakers just make the wear parts out of a hard wearing metal like tungsten or carbon?
the whole pallet or wheel could be made out of the metal and it would do away with having to 'glue' jewels to the fork etc

there's probably an easy answer i have not considered

jtvision · 28 March 2009, 07:31 PM

I would imagine it's an issue of friction. I believe some manufacturers are using ceramic for some of these parts now.

Spark · 28 March 2009, 08:23 PM

It is not just a wear issue, but a friction/free movement one as already posted.
The Jewels are and have been synthetic for many years.
I think the term Jewel and the Red (Ruby) colour are really only used for traditional reasons more than anything else, but the purpose is the same.

luger · 29 March 2009, 03:51 AM

Vintage Longines watches used them in the late 1960s into the mid 1970s and Rolex uses them for the Center Wheel's bearing, IIRC.

jtvision · 29 March 2009, 08:02 PM

Luger: What you are referring to as the center wheel bearing is actually a bushing.

luger · 30 March 2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtvision

Luger: What you are referring to as the center wheel bearing is actually a bushing.

Take a look at this photo of the mainplate.

From this recent essay in particular. Actually they wrote "Note the beryllium bronze bushing in the center for the canon pinion..." Jewel on top side.

shaggy · 30 March 2009, 05:38 AM

great info guys cheers

jtvision · 30 March 2009, 06:51 PM

Pardon me luger. I am familiar.
We arguing semantics.

Spare201 · 31 March 2009, 04:03 AM

Meh synthetic sapphire is cheap; to grow, to machine, the methods of tooling setting and it isn't a porous mateirial so degraded lubricants aren't trapped. I'm sure these are all reasons for using it. Just like the swiss lever escapement hasn't changed radically in over 200 yrs, materiels haven't either why mess with something that works. Certain manufacturers are pioneering higher tech mateirials silicum, DLC and the like but these are really in the trial stages.

DSJ · 31 March 2009, 04:11 AM

Heck, why even make mechanical watches at all these days!?

cody p · 31 March 2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtvision

Luger: What you are referring to as the center wheel bearing is actually a bushing.

center wheel, or 4th wheel?

luger · 31 March 2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody p

center wheel, or 4th wheel?

the 4th wheel (the traditional carrier of the seconds hand) is in the center of that movement.

cody p · 31 March 2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger

the 4th wheel (the traditional carrier of the seconds hand) is in the center of that movement.

based on the layout of the wheel train i would agree, although i've never disassembled one myself... yet.

shaggy · 31 March 2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spare201

Meh synthetic sapphire is cheap; to grow, to machine, the methods of tooling setting and it isn't a porous mateirial so degraded lubricants aren't trapped. I'm sure these are all reasons for using it. Just like the swiss lever escapement hasn't changed radically in over 200 yrs, materiels haven't either why mess with something that works. Certain manufacturers are pioneering higher tech mateirials silicum, DLC and the like but these are really in the trial stages.

thanks

the reasons you state make sence but the reason mankind messes with things is to make them better(in this instance lol) so what is being said here is that there is not really a better alternative available at the moment?
or that a watchmaker has not developed anything better yet because what they have works as well as it could?

28 March 2009, 06:48 PM	#1
shaggy "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Brett Location: leeds,uk Watch: BLUE ARAB DAYTONA Posts: 691	why use jewels at all nowadays? just looking at tools latest posting of the pallet & escape wheel and wondered why dont watchmakers just make the wear parts out of a hard wearing metal like tungsten or carbon? the whole pallet or wheel could be made out of the metal and it would do away with having to 'glue' jewels to the fork etc there's probably an easy answer i have not considered Last edited by shaggy; 28 March 2009 at 06:49 PM.. Reason: spelling

29 March 2009, 03:51 AM	#4
luger Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: US Watch: Submariner Date Posts: 25	some bearings are currently made of beryllium-bronze Vintage Longines watches used them in the late 1960s into the mid 1970s and Rolex uses them for the Center Wheel's bearing, IIRC.

31 March 2009, 04:11 AM	#10
DSJ "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: David Location: USA Watch: your step! Posts: 7,882	Heck, why even make mechanical watches at all these days!? __________________ Rolex. The Rolex of watches. 16570 Expy2 Noir, 116710 GMT Master II, 2552.80 SMP

28 March 2009, 07:31 PM	#2
jtvision Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver Watch: Seiko to Rolex Posts: 225	I would imagine it's an issue of friction. I believe some manufacturers are using ceramic for some of these parts now.

28 March 2009, 08:23 PM	#3
Spark "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Real Name: Mark Location: U.K. Watch: Too Many Posts: 2,097	It is not just a wear issue, but a friction/free movement one as already posted. The Jewels are and have been synthetic for many years. I think the term Jewel and the Red (Ruby) colour are really only used for traditional reasons more than anything else, but the purpose is the same.

29 March 2009, 08:02 PM	#5
jtvision Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver Watch: Seiko to Rolex Posts: 225	Luger: What you are referring to as the center wheel bearing is actually a bushing.

30 March 2009, 05:38 AM	#7
shaggy "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Brett Location: leeds,uk Watch: BLUE ARAB DAYTONA Posts: 691	great info guys cheers

30 March 2009, 06:51 PM	#8
jtvision Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver Watch: Seiko to Rolex Posts: 225	Pardon me luger. I am familiar. We arguing semantics.

31 March 2009, 04:03 AM	#9
Spare201 Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Real Name: Spare201 Location: U.S.A. Watch: 1970 Day-Date Posts: 197	Meh synthetic sapphire is cheap; to grow, to machine, the methods of tooling setting and it isn't a porous mateirial so degraded lubricants aren't trapped. I'm sure these are all reasons for using it. Just like the swiss lever escapement hasn't changed radically in over 200 yrs, materiels haven't either why mess with something that works. Certain manufacturers are pioneering higher tech mateirials silicum, DLC and the like but these are really in the trial stages.

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