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lawler · 4 April 2020, 12:56 AM

I am in the market for a pre-ceramic Submariner.

I have previously owned a ceramic Submariner Date (116610LN) but found it was too big for my small wrists so, after going through several other watch brands, I have now come full-circle and want to pick up a smaller, pre-ceramic model.

I would like to get the best value for money possible but also not regret my decision as this will be very much a lifetime investment (unless I had to get rid of it under desperate circumstances).

I enjoyed having the date complication but also recognise that a lot of people like the classic look of the no date model as this harks back to the original model.

I also plan to wear this as my only watch (for now) so will be picking up some more straps i.e. nato, perlon etc so will be changing the strap quite a bit. This means that lug holes could be useful but I understand that strap changes can be done easy enough on the non-lug holes models as long as I have the right tweezer tool and the no-lug holes model looks a bit sleeker.

I also like the engraved rehaut which also adds a bit more bling/security but recognise that a lot of people hate this.

I have narrowed it down to the following models:

14060m - Year: 2007-2012
Pros:
- extremely wearable
- upgraded movement over the 14060
- lug holes
- engraved rehaut
- some of the latest models have the parachrom hairspring which is the same as the current 114060 ceramic model (2011-2012)

Cons:
- hollow end links
- does not have the cyclops

16610 - Year: 2002
Pros:
- lug holes
- cyclops
- solid end links

Cons:
- no engraved rehaut

16610 - Year: 2007 - 2009
Pros:
- engraved rehaut
- cyclops
- solid end links

Cons:
- no lug holes

I recognise that there are subtle differences, especially for the 16610 model, however I do not want to make a mistake on such a purchase that I intend to keep/wear for a long time. I would also like to make sure I choose a model that would likely go up in value for the future.

Based on my own assessment, I think I will be looking at one of the 16610 models as it has solid end links and is very much the full package for me with the date complication but I need to decide whether I value the engraved rehaut/no lug holes or non-engraved rehaut/lug holes model more.

As far as I can see from researching this, there is no 16610 model with both the engraved rehaut and lug holes. If there was this would be the model I would pick up as it has the best of both worlds for me.

I will be looking for a good condition model with no dings/marks that has full box and papers.

Based on the above models, does anyone have any suggestions on what I should go on the hunt for?

Appreciate any advice!

SA1 · 4 April 2020, 01:01 AM

I’m very happy with my 14060m 4 line engraved Rehault.
It is easy to keep up with the date by simply using the dial to reflect the date.

Greg 59 · 4 April 2020, 01:01 AM

I don't believe anyone could add value to what you have already stated. You just need to start looking for your chosen model and remember, everything in life is a compromise.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Goose 104 · 4 April 2020, 01:23 AM

For me I would go for the 14060m but that's because there are lots of other models with the date - GMT master II has a cyclops along with the datejust and sky dweller. If this is your only Rolex then it comes down to whether you want a date complication or not. My choice would be 14060m even though I already have the BB58.

SDREW22 · 4 April 2020, 01:25 AM

14060m 2 lines. You can always use the bezel as a date function.

Flyoverguy · 4 April 2020, 01:33 AM

No cyclops and no rehaut script are pros not cons for me. YMMV.

My 14060M 2-liner fits me very well.

Goose 104 · 4 April 2020, 01:49 AM

I guess the other thing is how desperate are you to buy now? It might be worth waiting a couple of months since the prices are going down and you say you would like to get the best value for money possible.

ronricks · 4 April 2020, 01:56 AM

For me the sweet spot would be the 16610 with lug holes and the solid end link bracelet so that would be some A, P, and K serials?

lawler · 4 April 2020, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronricks

For me the sweet spot would be the 16610 with lug holes and the solid end link bracelet so that would be some A, P, and K serials?

I think you are right, although, as far as I am aware none of these serials have the engraved rehaut?

Kyle3130 · 4 April 2020, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDREW22

14060m 2 lines. You can always use the bezel as a date function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyoverguy

No cyclops and no rehaut script are pros not cons for me. YMMV.

My 14060M 2-liner fits me very well.

Agreed!

Chester01 · 4 April 2020, 02:44 AM

Depends. I have a u series 16610. I use the date function all the time, so I make my watch choices based on function. Prior to 2000, or so they were also made of tritium and eventually fade to a nice patina but less useful in the dark. You put not having the engraved rehaut as a con. It’s really not a good look to me, and distracting. Now, if it were me, and I did not have one I would go with the newest and cleanest version of a 16610 you can get. Why, better shape, more recent, less maintenance for the most part, offers a date and who cares about the lug holes.

SearChart · 4 April 2020, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyoverguy

No cyclops and no rehaut script are pros not cons for me. YMMV.

My 14060M 2-liner fits me very well.

Exactly.

14060M gets my vote as well

lawler · 4 April 2020, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chester01

Depends. I have a u series 16610. I use the date function all the time, so I make my watch choices based on function. Prior to 2000, or so they were also made of tritium and eventually fade to a nice patina but less useful in the dark. You put not having the engraved rehaut as a con. It’s really not a good look to me, and distracting. Now, if it were me, and I did not have one I would go with the newest and cleanest version of a 16610 you can get. Why, better shape, more recent, less maintenance for the most part, offers a date and who cares about the lug holes.

You make a very compelling case.

This seems like the best approach and maybe I was holding too much onto the lug holes and I am happy with the engraved rehaut so for me that wouldn't be an issue

So I'm looking for the cleanest 2010 16610 I can find by the looks of it

Rado63 · 4 April 2020, 03:10 AM

Yes OP I think you have this pretty well sorted. My personal choice would be the newer model years , date or no date, with the engraved rehaut. My .02.

Chester01 · 4 April 2020, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawler

You make a very compelling case.

This seems like the best approach and maybe I was holding too much onto the lug holes and I am happy with the engraved rehaut so for me that wouldn't be an issue

So I'm looking for the cleanest 2010 16610 I can find by the looks of it

I think you will be happy with that. It’s really a modern classic and the change to the wide lugs drastically altered the lines of the sub. The circle on square above, then from the side where the bracelet joins the case. With the 16610, it flows, with the new version it appears too narrow for the case. The clean seamless lines of the sub have all but disappeared into what to my mind looks disjointed. So enjoy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lawler · 4 April 2020, 05:20 AM

After much more research, I've now decided to get a 16610 2002 model as this benefits from lug holes, solid end links and no engraved rehaut.

This is the best balanced model based on my preferences of needing a date (as a daily watch) and changing the straps often.

I now see what people mean when they say that it is much more desirable without the engraved rehaut from pictures I have seen.

Thanks everyone for your wisdom

eskiserkan · 4 April 2020, 05:44 AM

14060 2-line should be the first choice. Than it comes to 4-line.

Gerry62 · 4 April 2020, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyoverguy

No cyclops and no rehaut script are pros not cons for me. YMMV.

My 14060M 2-liner fits me very well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SearChart

Exactly.

Flyoverguy and SearChart

14060M gets my vote as well

2 liner ...... connects to 5513 as a dial cleaning.

Finslayer83 · 4 April 2020, 08:46 AM

Have owned:

14060M
114060
5513
16610

Decided to create a hybrid of my own (best take away's from the others) with the following requirements:
- Lug holes
- SEL bracelet
- Date

I snagged a 2001 ref. 16610 and got to work making some personal changes:
- Removed cyclops on work bench with knife/hammer
- Fully brushed with Bergeon satin wheel / pads
- Local CW21 installed a set of 16610LV Maxi hands

LOVE the end result and have since sold my Explorer and all my Omega's.

snoride · 4 April 2020, 11:49 AM

You made the right choice if you plan on changing out the bracelet/strap often. With my M serial I hardly notice the engraved rehaut and would not miss it. I only wear it on the bracelet so lugs holes offer no advantage. For an only watch daily wearer I would also consider going with the cleanest new model V or Random serial. Just be careful removing the bracelet or invest in a good tool like the Bergeon 7825. Good luck on your hunt to find a clean one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawler

After much more research, I've now decided to get a 16610 2002 model as this benefits from lug holes, solid end links and no engraved rehaut.

This is the best balanced model based on my preferences of needing a date (as a daily watch) and changing the straps often.

I now see what people mean when they say that it is much more desirable without the engraved rehaut from pictures I have seen.

Thanks everyone for your wisdom

4 April 2020, 12:56 AM	#1
lawler "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: GB Posts: 73	Best pre-ceramic Submariner I am in the market for a pre-ceramic Submariner. I have previously owned a ceramic Submariner Date (116610LN) but found it was too big for my small wrists so, after going through several other watch brands, I have now come full-circle and want to pick up a smaller, pre-ceramic model. I would like to get the best value for money possible but also not regret my decision as this will be very much a lifetime investment (unless I had to get rid of it under desperate circumstances). I enjoyed having the date complication but also recognise that a lot of people like the classic look of the no date model as this harks back to the original model. I also plan to wear this as my only watch (for now) so will be picking up some more straps i.e. nato, perlon etc so will be changing the strap quite a bit. This means that lug holes could be useful but I understand that strap changes can be done easy enough on the non-lug holes models as long as I have the right tweezer tool and the no-lug holes model looks a bit sleeker. I also like the engraved rehaut which also adds a bit more bling/security but recognise that a lot of people hate this. I have narrowed it down to the following models: 14060m - Year: 2007-2012 Pros: - extremely wearable - upgraded movement over the 14060 - lug holes - engraved rehaut - some of the latest models have the parachrom hairspring which is the same as the current 114060 ceramic model (2011-2012) Cons: - hollow end links - does not have the cyclops 16610 - Year: 2002 Pros: - lug holes - cyclops - solid end links Cons: - no engraved rehaut 16610 - Year: 2007 - 2009 Pros: - engraved rehaut - cyclops - solid end links Cons: - no lug holes I recognise that there are subtle differences, especially for the 16610 model, however I do not want to make a mistake on such a purchase that I intend to keep/wear for a long time. I would also like to make sure I choose a model that would likely go up in value for the future. Based on my own assessment, I think I will be looking at one of the 16610 models as it has solid end links and is very much the full package for me with the date complication but I need to decide whether I value the engraved rehaut/no lug holes or non-engraved rehaut/lug holes model more. As far as I can see from researching this, there is no 16610 model with both the engraved rehaut and lug holes. If there was this would be the model I would pick up as it has the best of both worlds for me. I will be looking for a good condition model with no dings/marks that has full box and papers. Based on the above models, does anyone have any suggestions on what I should go on the hunt for? Appreciate any advice!

4 April 2020, 01:23 AM	#4
Goose 104 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: UK Watch: 126622 Posts: 961	For me I would go for the 14060m but that's because there are lots of other models with the date - GMT master II has a cyclops along with the datejust and sky dweller. If this is your only Rolex then it comes down to whether you want a date complication or not. My choice would be 14060m even though I already have the BB58. __________________ ♛126622 Rhodium // ♛126234 Blue //♛126613LB // ♛126000 Green + more ♛ 76213 Prince Date+Day // Black Bay 58 // Black Bay Harrods // Heritage Advisor // Vertex M100 + more...

4 April 2020, 03:10 AM	#14
Rado63 "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2017 Real Name: Alan Location: Northern, CA Watch: 116334 Posts: 2,215	Yes OP I think you have this pretty well sorted. My personal choice would be the newer model years , date or no date, with the engraved rehaut. My .02. __________________ Rolex 116334 126600 228235

4 April 2020, 01:01 AM	#2
SA1 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Miami Posts: 287	I’m very happy with my 14060m 4 line engraved Rehault. It is easy to keep up with the date by simply using the dial to reflect the date.

4 April 2020, 01:01 AM	#3
Greg 59 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Australia Posts: 876	I don't believe anyone could add value to what you have already stated. You just need to start looking for your chosen model and remember, everything in life is a compromise. Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

4 April 2020, 01:25 AM	#5
SDREW22 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: CNY Watch: TOG Posts: 582	14060m 2 lines. You can always use the bezel as a date function.

4 April 2020, 01:33 AM	#6
Flyoverguy "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Chicago Posts: 160	No cyclops and no rehaut script are pros not cons for me. YMMV. My 14060M 2-liner fits me very well.

4 April 2020, 01:49 AM	#7
Goose 104 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: UK Watch: 126622 Posts: 961	I guess the other thing is how desperate are you to buy now? It might be worth waiting a couple of months since the prices are going down and you say you would like to get the best value for money possible.

4 April 2020, 01:56 AM	#8
ronricks 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ATL Watch: 126610LV Posts: 2,752	For me the sweet spot would be the 16610 with lug holes and the solid end link bracelet so that would be some A, P, and K serials?

4 April 2020, 02:44 AM	#11
Chester01 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: East Coast Watch: 16610 Posts: 4,933	Depends. I have a u series 16610. I use the date function all the time, so I make my watch choices based on function. Prior to 2000, or so they were also made of tritium and eventually fade to a nice patina but less useful in the dark. You put not having the engraved rehaut as a con. It’s really not a good look to me, and distracting. Now, if it were me, and I did not have one I would go with the newest and cleanest version of a 16610 you can get. Why, better shape, more recent, less maintenance for the most part, offers a date and who cares about the lug holes.

4 April 2020, 05:20 AM	#16
lawler "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: GB Posts: 73	After much more research, I've now decided to get a 16610 2002 model as this benefits from lug holes, solid end links and no engraved rehaut. This is the best balanced model based on my preferences of needing a date (as a daily watch) and changing the straps often. I now see what people mean when they say that it is much more desirable without the engraved rehaut from pictures I have seen. Thanks everyone for your wisdom

4 April 2020, 05:44 AM	#17
eskiserkan "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Bursa Watch: 116500LN Posts: 493	14060 2-line should be the first choice. Than it comes to 4-line.

4 April 2020, 08:46 AM	#19
Finslayer83 "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Tennessee Watch: DW-5600 Posts: 1,584	Have owned: 14060M 114060 5513 16610 Decided to create a hybrid of my own (best take away's from the others) with the following requirements: - Lug holes - SEL bracelet - Date I snagged a 2001 ref. 16610 and got to work making some personal changes: - Removed cyclops on work bench with knife/hammer - Fully brushed with Bergeon satin wheel / pads - Local CW21 installed a set of 16610LV Maxi hands LOVE the end result and have since sold my Explorer and all my Omega's.

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