Opportunity to buy a 1655

[vandyologist]

Hi all. I have no experience with vintage Rolex and have the opportunity to buy this 5.9 million serial 1655. Has box, no papers. Anyone care to share thoughts on condition? Is this the original or era correct bracelet? Does it look to have been polished? Any thoughts appreciated.

[WCHROLX]

It looks perfectly in good shape and is very original.

[vintagewatch]

The 1655 and it's bracelet looks to be genuine and original. The case and bracelet appear to have had a polishing(s) at some point , this is fairly evident on the crown guard, clasp, lugs, and bezel. The wear on the bezel paint is obvious. The dial and hands look good. Considering the watch is about 42 years old the condition is typical. I have a similar 1655 (pictured) with a 5.35 million serial number, but it's been a safe queen (my bad) for a last 32 years so it's faired quite well.

[storm66]

I love them.......don’t know a lot about them ....but this might help..........hopefully the link works
https://www.revolution.watch/tooled-...eference-1655/


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[1675-David]

Looks like a service dial.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by vintagewatch

The 1655 and it's bracelet looks to be genuine and original. The case and bracelet appear to have had a polishing(s) at some point , this is fairly evident on the crown guard, clasp, lugs, and bezel. The wear on the bezel paint is obvious. The dial and hands look good. Considering the watch is about 42 years old the condition is typical. I have a similar 1655 (pictured) with a 5.35 million serial number, but it's been a safe queen (my bad) for a last 32 years so it's faired quite well.

Hi David,

Do you have a pix of your one for comparison?

[swatty]

Any shots between the lugs ?

[1675-David]

This post has a lot of useful information

https://www.watchprozine.com/rolex/t...e/3563066/732/

I’d say the OP’s watch has a mk 6 service dial with reservation for my bad eyesight :-)

[storm66]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

This post has a lot of useful information

https://www.watchprozine.com/rolex/t...e/3563066/732/

I’d say the OP’s watch has a mk 6 service dial with reservation for my bad eyesight :-)

We’ve similar eyesight .....😁

[vandyologist]

Can someone educate me? The difference between the era correct MK4 and the MK6 service dial is the color of the line and lack of patina? Are there other differences?

I don’t want to break any rules regarding pricing but could someone PM me best guess estimates of what I should pay for this. I’m happy to share the asking price if allowed.

[vintagewatch]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hi David,

Do you have a pix of your one for comparison?

That is my 1655 pictured, I have a few more pictures, what would you like to see?

[Dan S]

I agree that it's a service dial. For valuation, I would also assume the hands are service. Bezel looks to be original.

[swish77]

Yes, as above, definitely a service dial. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's priced accordingly (and the seller has disclosed that fact).

The easiest way to tell the difference between an original MK4 and service dial is to look at the first "R" in "Explorer." On an original MK4 dial, it's centered directly under the second "E" in "Perpetual," unlike on the service dial.

Also, despite the "T" marking for tritium on the dial, it might actually be luminova, so a flashlight or UV light can give you your answer without analyzing font.

[BrazenC5]

Minor note given all has been discussed about the 1655, but that box (if the one opened on the countertop) doesn't go with the watch (may not even be legit), you should insist that it is not factored into the price.

And its OK to share the asking price.

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[vandyologist]

Asking price is $15k usd.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

Asking price is $15k usd. I’m inclined to purchase as the value seems decent even with the service dial. The seller isn’t a vintage dealer and didn’t disclose the service dial but I believe the he doesn’t know the difference.

I mean it is priced accordingly. No red flags jump out. Like others have pointed out, early luminova service dial which were marked tritium to be faithful to the original.

If you consider what the nicer all original 1655's fetch, I think you will do good on this one.. If you love the piece and it's within your budget then I think it's a win for you.

PS: the box is worthless for this model. Perhaps you can make the seller aware of that and about the service dial. You never know, maybe you can shave a bit off the top.

[Dan S]

To price this watch, I would find an accurate valuation (not C24 asking price, but an actual collector-to-collector sales price) of an all-original example with a mediocre case and average dial/handset, then subtract roughly 40%. You may have a problem if the seller isn't savvy enough to understand how much the service parts hurt the value. For me, it's not a $15k watch with the service dial and hands. Just my subjective opinion.

[vandyologist]

Originally Posted by Dan S

To price this watch, I would find an accurate valuation (not C24 asking price, but an actual collector-to-collector sales price) of an all-original example with a mediocre case and average dial/handset, then subtract roughly 40%. You may have a problem if the seller isn't savvy enough to understand how much the service parts hurt the value. For me, it's not a $15k watch with the service dial and hands. Just my subjective opinion.

Thank you. I’ll do some pricing diligence. Based on all of the above, I’m inclined to pass now.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by Dan S

To price this watch, I would find an accurate valuation (not C24 asking price, but an actual collector-to-collector sales price) of an all-original example with a mediocre case and average dial/handset, then subtract roughly 40%. You may have a problem if the seller isn't savvy enough to understand how much the service parts hurt the value. For me, it's not a $15k watch with the service dial and hands. Just my subjective opinion.

I would tend to agree with this, however the market is scarce. If there was another one available at the moment from a collector for less money that is equivalent to this 1655, then that would be a different story. That would put you in a better negotiating position.

However, if there isn't and you want the watch now and don't want to play a waiting game, then this is probably your best bet.

Considering what top condition full sets go for, this one is half price.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Considering what top condition full sets go for, this one is half price.

Strictly speaking this is true, but if we consider collector-to-collector pricing, $30k would be a fairly high price for an excellent Mk1 with full set (in fact, a dealer is currently asking $33k for an example that fits this description, and it has been sitting for quite a while), so that's not really a fair comparison IMO.

Even on eBay and at Bob's, there are a number of mediocre, but apparently original examples, available for under $20k from dealers. (There are also examples with service parts in the same range - pricing is often stupid). None of them is attractive to me, but they are useful as comps.

[Woody]

That looks to be quite a nice example to me and one I would certainly consider. Most of these have been worn and used as intended so the cases are generally in poor condition. This one is not too bad at all. You would not get much cheaper than this in the UK market.

[swish77]

Depends on what your goal is with a vintage Rolex. Are you OK with just a cool vintage vibe on a Rolex with a service dial, or are you an OCD hobbyist/collector that can't stand it when something is not factory original?

At $15K, I would pass on this 1655 because I generally fall into the second category, but mainly because spending not too much more could get you an all-factory original example. When you're already in this neighborhood price-wise, why not stretch a little more?

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Strictly speaking this is true, but if we consider collector-to-collector pricing, $30k would be a fairly high price for an excellent Mk1 with full set (in fact, a dealer is currently asking $33k for an example that fits this description, and it has been sitting for quite a while), so that's not really a fair comparison IMO.

Even on eBay and at Bob's, there are a number of mediocre, but apparently original examples, available for under $20k from dealers. (There are also examples with service parts in the same range - pricing is often stupid). None of them is attractive to me, but they are useful as comps.

Here’s the problem with comparing to the examples on bobs or eBay.. this ones from eBay, listed at 18k. Between the dial damage and the service bezel, it’s such an eye sore to the point that I would rather have the OP’s service dial piece over this original dialed piece.
See here

1655’s are often suffering from damage more so than other matte sport models because of the painted hands, larger surface area of tritium on the orange hand (more prone to crack) etc..

My personal example for reference. I don’t believe I have seen any full sets original owner 1655’s for sale as of late.







In my opinion, its not often I see these level of pieces pop up collector to collector. Once in a blue moon a collector or mostly dealers will obtain a set like this directly from the original owner. So the quality dealers I know when they do get complete original examples, they tend to price them higher because you won’t necessarily find them on eBay or anywhere else, so the collector will pay the premium to get that condition.

I feel 1655’s are undervalued as it is. But I won’t let that feeling diminish the actual market value that these trade for.

I also feel for the 1655 variations, straight hand, rail dial, frog foot etc, these features don’t command as much of a premium over the other examples as you would think.

Personally A service dial isn’t for me, but may be for someone else. I think back to when I first dipped my toes in the vintage market and I started off with service dialed pieces, they were reliable, not fragile and able to use as a daily wearer.

I just think between the 15 to 18k range there is a lot of junk on the market.

When I look at the OP’s piece, I see a watch with good bones and aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

As I stated you could always try to negotiate a little off the top for the reasons previously listed.

If you have the budget to spend a few more grand on one with original dial, are you able to accept the flaws that will come along with it?

I think it’s easy to say many are over priced and just sit on the market, but on the flip side, the sellers aren’t looking to just give them away either.

If I saw consistent trading of quality pieces in a lower price bracket, then I would say they are trading much lower than the listed prices on eBay or bobs..

I have seen nice (Restored polished) examples trade for nice amounts collector to collector. Recently to..

It all goes back to how the OP feels about this particular watch and this particular deal and if he wants to play a waiting game to try and find something else that may have other setbacks.

It’s a very personal thing.

If you have the budget, go for the best example you can find. That’s what I would do personally, but that’s just me.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Here’s the problem with comparing to the examples on bobs or eBay.. this ones from eBay, listed at 18k. Between the dial damage and the service bezel, it’s such an eye sore to the point that I would rather have the OP’s service dial piece over this original dialed piece.
See here

1655’s are often suffering from damage more so than other matte sport models because of the painted hands, larger surface area of tritium on the orange hand (more prone to crack) etc..

My personal example for reference. I don’t believe I have seen any full sets original owner 1655’s for sale as of late.







In my opinion, its not often I see these level of pieces pop up collector to collector. Once in a blue moon a collector or mostly dealers will obtain a set like this directly from the original owner. So the quality dealers I know when they do get complete original examples, they tend to price them higher because you won’t necessarily find them on eBay or anywhere else, so the collector will pay the premium to get that condition.

I feel 1655’s are undervalued as it is. But I won’t let that feeling diminish the actual market value that these trade for.

I also feel for the 1655 variations, straight hand, rail dial, frog foot etc, these features don’t command as much of a premium over the other examples as you would think.

Personally A service dial isn’t for me, but may be for someone else. I think back to when I first dipped my toes in the vintage market and I started off with service dialed pieces, they were reliable, not fragile and able to use as a daily wearer.

I just think between the 15 to 18k range there is a lot of junk on the market.

When I look at the OP’s piece, I see a watch with good bones and aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

As I stated you could always try to negotiate a little off the top for the reasons previously listed.

If you have the budget to spend a few more grand on one with original dial, are you able to accept the flaws that will come along with it?

I think it’s easy to say many are over priced and just sit on the market, but on the flip side, the sellers aren’t looking to just give them away either.

If I saw consistent trading of quality pieces in a lower price bracket, then I would say they are trading much lower than the listed prices on eBay or bobs..

I have seen nice (Restored polished) examples trade for nice amounts collector to collector. Recently to..

It all goes back to how the OP feels about this particular watch and this particular deal and if he wants to play a waiting game to try and find something else that may have other setbacks.

It’s a very personal thing.

If you have the budget, go for the best example you can find. That’s what I would do personally, but that’s just me.

Beautiful 1655, Subking! And very fair points.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by swish77

Beautiful 1655, Subking! And very fair points.

thank you! you have a beautiful one as well.

[vandyologist]

The watch was purchased here...

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions...4/lot.313.html

Does this change anything? Still confirms service hands and dial?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

The watch was purchased here...

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions...4/lot.313.html

Does this change anything? Still confirms service hands and dial?

No, that doesn't change anything, and confirms that even the big auction houses often don't know what they're doing. No mention of a service dial in the description or "condition report."

Also, keep in mind that the auction was six years ago.

[iangbris]

Originals do exist, this one was my daily for over 20 years. Interestingly it was won by my father on a game show in the mid 70s





Hi


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