Hulk and Kermit prices.

[HORNBLOWER]

Just noticed the prices of previous gen Hulk and Kermit has shot up substantially. Interesting to see how this pans out...

[Kostas]

Everything ss submariner related models just went up, black bezel, TT and the Kermit/ hulk

[Patton250]

We are pretty much knew this was going to happen if Rolex discontinued the hulk. I was fairly confident they would not do this so I was completely wrong. Now thousands and thousands of people that were on the list to get this piece won’t ever be able to get it and Rolex has just made the grey dealers even more rich then they were before. In the past I argued with other members that Rolex was not in bed with the grey dealers. I insisted they weren’t. Now with this move it looks like I was wrong about that too. Why would they discontinue a reference that at least for now was probably the most popular one in their lineup after the Daytona but continue to make certain crap ass date justs that nobody wants???? Makes zero sense. But does it makes zero sense when you see dozens of grey dealers that literally have dozens of hulks to sell? It’s messed up.

[Tavli3]

It partly makes sense as in that a major part of the Rolex equation is value and to maintain the value perception Rolex needs to discontinue a model after a certain time. As you can see it increases the value instantly and then plants the seed in "Potential" new customers that think hey I have to buy a Rolex so I can get in on that action. Therefor creating more demand and value perception.

Although talking about value is frowned upon here on the Forum it's as integral to the Rolex formula as E=MC2'd. So just as you can't remove any part of Einstien's theory for it to still work, you can't remove the value part of the Rolex formula. Whether we like it or not it's there.

What doesn't make sense is like you say why are these gray dealers each having dozens of new unworn watches, some fully stickered even. While I agree the Greys are part of Ecosystem they have mutated into an abomination of sorts where they more or less control the market and apply their whatever the market will bear tax on the consumers. So in essence most people who want to purchase a Rolex are not Rolex customers they are Grey customers.

Not a good thing in my mind for us, the consumer in general or Rolex.

[dpvillanueva]

I don't get that either. It's like AD's are flagrantly violating Rolex's and PP's rules. I've seen so many BRAND NEW Rolexes and Esp PPs being sold by Grays. So it's either 1. ADs channeling stock to resellers for extra profit or 2. VIPs immediately consigning to these resellers for Profit

[Daveclock]

Originally Posted by Patton250

We are pretty much knew this was going to happen if Rolex discontinued the hulk. I was fairly confident they would not do this so I was completely wrong. Now thousands and thousands of people that were on the list to get this piece won’t ever be able to get it and Rolex has just made the grey dealers even more rich then they were before. In the past I argued with other members that Rolex was not in bed with the grey dealers. I insisted they weren’t. Now with this move it looks like I was wrong about that too. Why would they discontinue a reference that at least for now was probably the most popular one in their lineup after the Daytona but continue to make certain crap ass date justs that nobody wants???? Makes zero sense. But does it makes zero sense when you see dozens of grey dealers that literally have dozens of hulks to sell? It’s messed up.

Nice to hear someone brave enough to call out the datejusts! (I think about them the same way BTW!)
Have been on the "wait list/interest list" since 2018 after not buying a second hand Hulk in 2014 for £6100 (well...obviously new ones were only a little more.... but did not know about the AD games then!)
then not buying the second hand one for £8950...again thinking £6450 was achievable for AD new...)
I did tune into that watch a few weeks later....but had missed the boat then...
As of now, for some reason I am OK about it and am OVER it...as there are more important things that take up my time...
...but being an optimist I'll try harder for a Cermit/Shrek of whatever it's called!

[Ranger67]

My view only but I find it strange that people will pay a 100% mark up on a mass produced watch.

[illiguy]

Where are you seeing this? Market seems the same as August 31st (pre-release).

[YUL]

I do not see much foresight or logic behind discontinuing your most in demand model, especially when you obviously have the capacity to produce more. That capacity being used for datejusts is a bit intriguing to say the least. I own a datejust 41 with the newer movement, so it is nothing against that model. I’d pickup the hulk at MSRP any minute - the quest now changes to the new one with the black dial.


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[1William]

The Grey's will test the market with prices to see what will stick and where it will go. I fully expect a modern, complete pre-owned Hulk to go for 25k before Christmas and a NIB model to go over 30k. And they will get that for it.

[fskywalker]

The hype continues....


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[AK797]

Greys will take any opportunity to raise prices and the big ones have the reserves to maintain them even if demand does not see them selling quickly, their main priority is to maintain this image of a bull market that attracts all sorts of newcomers, and at any cost even if some models can't sell at the higher prices - which is why we are not seeing some of them fall. The market is now a cartel so they can control what happens, esp as Rolex's supply output is pretty steady.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by AK797

Greys will take any opportunity to raise prices and the big ones have the reserves to maintain them even if demand does not see them selling quickly, their main priority is to maintain this image of a bull market that attracts all sorts of newcomers, and at any cost even if some models can't sell at the higher prices - which is why we are not seeing some of them fall. The market is now a cartel so they can control what happens, esp as Rolex's supply output is pretty steady.

Hit the nail on the head right there.

All the grays collude and artificially set the prices. They will use any opportunity no matter how absurd to justify an increase.

[inadeje]

My smurf, 16610 and 5513 have all three shot up on C24. I don’t think it’s just the two variants you suggest. I sold my hulk in feb for 15k, no regrets at all since I put the money into a Patek which is equally up in price. I rarely care how much my watches are worth when I’m adamant that I’m passing upon them.

[Ouro9999]

Never really liked the hulk, so price is irrelevant to me. But the new Kermit is something special.

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[tmilnthorp]

Originally Posted by AK797

Greys will take any opportunity to raise prices and the big ones have the reserves to maintain them even if demand does not see them selling quickly, their main priority is to maintain this image of a bull market that attracts all sorts of newcomers, and at any cost even if some models can't sell at the higher prices - which is why we are not seeing some of them fall. The market is now a cartel so they can control what happens, esp as Rolex's supply output is pretty steady.

Bingo. If I were a large grey with a ton of supply, I'd trickle them out ever so slowly. Once in a while, I'd increase the price 10%. Other greys would jump to take the same premium increase. Buyers praying for a price drop would panic buy before the prices goes up even more.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

[ars1g09]

I know for a fact that in certain countries, greys have a group chat where they all set prices in agreement within the entire group. this way they coordinate to ensure prices rise/fall accordingly. quite fascinating (if that is the right word) stuff.

[ALF61]

Originally Posted by Patton250

We are pretty much knew this was going to happen if Rolex discontinued the hulk. I was fairly confident they would not do this so I was completely wrong. Now thousands and thousands of people that were on the list to get this piece won’t ever be able to get it and Rolex has just made the grey dealers even more rich then they were before. In the past I argued with other members that Rolex was not in bed with the grey dealers. I insisted they weren’t. Now with this move it looks like I was wrong about that too. Why would they discontinue a reference that at least for now was probably the most popular one in their lineup after the Daytona but continue to make certain crap ass date justs that nobody wants???? Makes zero sense. But does it makes zero sense when you see dozens of grey dealers that literally have dozens of hulks to sell? It’s messed up.

I don´t think they are "in bed". More like Rolex has found a way to hold a large customer base forever longing for their watches at list price. Which of course are only available to a lucky few. Some day they will come out with the Coke GMT and might discontinue the Pepsi and that day the Pepsi will skyrocket even more. So they found a way to price their pieces at collector values and a rare opportunity to a lucky fellow to buy a piece at MSRP.

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by Patton250

We are pretty much knew this was going to happen if Rolex discontinued the hulk. I was fairly confident they would not do this so I was completely wrong. Now thousands and thousands of people that were on the list to get this piece won’t ever be able to get it and Rolex has just made the grey dealers even more rich then they were before. In the past I argued with other members that Rolex was not in bed with the grey dealers. I insisted they weren’t. Now with this move it looks like I was wrong about that too. Why would they discontinue a reference that at least for now was probably the most popular one in their lineup after the Daytona but continue to make certain crap ass date justs that nobody wants???? Makes zero sense. But does it makes zero sense when you see dozens of grey dealers that literally have dozens of hulks to sell? It’s messed up.

Where are all these supposed grey dealers and “dozens of Hulks?”

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by ars1g09

I know for a fact that in certain countries, greys have a group chat where they all set prices in agreement within the entire group. this way they coordinate to ensure prices rise/fall accordingly. quite fascinating (if that is the right word) stuff.

Sure they do.

[brandog]

Hulks creeping up towards $25,000.

[Likestheshiny]

My view only but I find it strange that people will pay a 100% mark up on a mass produced watch.

Because the buyers want it, and can afford it.

These are luxury goods. Their MSRP already has little to do with production costs, methods, or numbers. If you'll accept an abstract and arbitrary MSRP in the first place, why not accept twice an abstract and arbitrary number if you can afford it?

Personally, I'm more likely to accept the actual, real-world street value of something over an MSRP that was decided with little concern for the product itself.

[synrrgy]

Originally Posted by brandog

Hulks creeping up towards $25,000.

There are already a few in Chrono24 and Grey Dealers that are pricing way above that.

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Hit the nail on the head right there.

All the grays collude and artificially set the prices. They will use any opportunity no matter how absurd to justify an increase.

They don't collude. Very doubtful and, of course, you have no proof.

[illiguy]

I think (hope) Mods would be ok with the following, given that it is not price speculation, but grounded in first-hand experience/fact.

Late June/Early July I purchased from a trusted seller here on TRF (one with a boutique in the classifieds and amazing person to deal with) a V-Serial 16610LV with box and papers, unpolished. I won’t go into what I paid, but I can say that I was torn between two different V-Serials in equal condition and price (the two watches had different shades of green on the aluminum bezel). After Rolex release of the new 126610LV, I now see that the V-Serial 16610LV I did not purchase has a new list price that is $6,000 USD higher today versus what was listed when I was on the hunt for my 16610LV.

Hope the above anecdote sheds light on the current market for the Kermit (original).

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

you have no proof.

Haven't heard? This is the internet. All you need is a keyboard. You don't need proof. LOL!

[904VT]

Hulk and Kermit prices should continue to go up as will all Subs. Just like always with introductions of updates to the big 3 professional SS models i.e. Daytona, GMT Master, Submariner line. The updates slowly trickle out and collectors buy up of what's left of the prior models via pre-owned or NIB stock still left at ADs in their safes. Some ADs will hold onto for a long while and bring out for sale at their discretion. In some cases at a latter point in time. These watches are still sold thru an AD in this latter case and come with full warranty starting from the day of the sale. We will probably see another round of price increases in 3 or so years just like we did after 6 digits were introduced in the 00's. Rolex can keep slow trickling the Professional line in general and I'm sure would still see plenty of sales in DJs and Day Dates making up the difference.

[nachopc]

Originally Posted by fskywalker

The hype continues....


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+1 and will not stop in a short term


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[Uggi]

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

Because the buyers want it, and can afford it.

These are luxury goods. Their MSRP already has little to do with production costs, methods, or numbers. If you'll accept an abstract and arbitrary MSRP in the first place, why not accept twice an abstract and arbitrary number if you can afford it?

Personally, I'm more likely to accept the actual, real-world street value of something over an MSRP that was decided with little concern for the product itself.

Spot on.
Never understood the "never over MSRP" mantra.
MSRP is in itself arbitrary.

[glamorama]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

They don't collude. Very doubtful and, of course, you have no proof.

Cmon of course they collude, some are even admitting it on YouTube