ALS breaking out soon?

[sgwatchguy]

Why has FPJ broken out, but ALS hasn’t? And yes by broken out I mean achieving a certain state of sustained demand and secondary market prices improving.

Is ALS the new VC? Much loved and admired, lauded for being right up there with the best and maybe better than the best, but it remains a dog on both primary and secondary market.

A number of their models are insanely good, outrageously beautiful creations and not just at the extreme end of the price spectrum with the grand complications, but all across the product range.

I don’t get it but I’d like to believe this state may not last and we start to see increased demand and may be even some “hype”.

Thoughts welcome.

[EEpro]

I better pick another up before the hype. Their first entry into steel was a way bigger success than Pepsi or Daytona in terms of resale vs msrp, right?

[WatchEater666]

Used prices have been going up for a while now. Personally I hope they stay down until I can get a well priced datograph lol

[uscmatt99]

I think ALS has started to figure out the game. Kill the ADs while opening boutiques with little or no room to move on price. Introduce models that are tough to get for special customers. Take advantage of the hype. Halo effect increases desirability of the rest of the catalogue. Dry up the secondary market.

FPJ had an easier time because they never made many pieces in the first place, and because they are independent. ALS had to deal with their overlords at Richemont.

[ansharma]

I also often think this - maybe their time (sorry!) will soon come or perhaps not like VC as you pointed out although the Overseas line looks strong.

I am not sure being a German watchmaker has anything to do with it but there may be something in that as there may be a perception that Swiss watchmaking is better.

Another point is there is not much of a casual (read steel sports) offering although this is changing and I think this is welcome news.

From what I gather discounting is less likely now or less in percentage terms which may improve perception of the brand.

Lange remains a great value proposition to be had pre-owned. I personally think it will stay like this in the short-term but would love to be wrong as it deserves an elite status.

[JR16]

Probably a combo of lower production and more admired aesthetic (I realize the latter is subjective) as well as the indie factor and cult-like following of the man (FPJ) vs the “faceless” German company. I’m sure there is more to it but these are just my initial off the cuff thoughts


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[raclaims]

The "quality" pieces are seeing significant returns on resale

The Odysseus opened the eyes of many who were previously unable to see

Lange makes some of the best quality, interesting, stunning, inventive pieces in the world right now. All while the big names have re-released slight color of dial changes...or slight increases in size, etc. Being safe. Boring. Uninventive.

I've been buying lots of Langes right now and they never disappoint.

[edhahn44]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

I think ALS has started to figure out the game. Kill the ADs while opening boutiques with little or no room to move on price. Introduce models that are tough to get for special customers. Take advantage of the hype. Halo effect increases desirability of the rest of the catalogue. Dry up the secondary market.

FPJ had an easier time because they never made many pieces in the first place, and because they are independent. ALS had to deal with their overlords at Richemont.

Exactly this.
I start observing an upward trend for the desired vintage models also (Dato, Zeitwerk, 1815 Chrono, etc.).


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[Russell996]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Why has FPJ broken out, but ALS hasn’t? And yes by broken out I mean achieving a certain state of sustained demand and secondary market prices improving.

Is ALS the new VC? Much loved and admired, lauded for being right up there with the best and maybe better than the best, but it remains a dog on both primary and secondary market.

A number of their models are insanely good, outrageously beautiful creations and not just at the extreme end of the price spectrum with the grand complications, but all across the product range.

I don’t get it but I’d like to believe this state may not last and we start to see increased demand and may be even some “hype”.

Thoughts welcome.

Has FPJ broken out (your words), as far as I can see they have the CB and a marketing team at WB.

[stonejordan]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Has FPJ broken out (your words), as far as I can see they have the CB and a marketing team at WB.

I'd say a little bit more than just a marketing team at WB. Almost every (or just every?) piece selling on the secondary market for above retail (often times hugely over retail). Just saw a Linesport aluminum that retails for 28k listed for 80k. Insanity for a sports line that I never would have imagined would pick up in popularity.

[GB-man]

Probably not. There’s no tortured looking genius behind the brand to get people intrigued. Unless of course watchbox decides it’s time lol

[ap1]

They are great, but I just don’t see it kick starting across the line. This run is long in the teeth across the major brands so not sure how much longer the winds will be at their backs.
As others point out, VC overseas just firming to msrp and not their strap stuff. Don’t forget ALS had price increases too. Not sure a mp1 moving from 24 to 28 preowned is something to get excited about, msrp is like 44

[jschmidtdmd]

Originally Posted by raclaims

The "quality" pieces are seeing significant returns on resale

The Odysseus opened the eyes of many who were previously unable to see

Lange makes some of the best quality, interesting, stunning, inventive pieces in the world right now. All while the big names have re-released slight color of dial changes...or slight increases in size, etc. Being safe. Boring. Uninventive.

I've been buying lots of Langes right now and they never disappoint.

Agreed. I think the future is bright

[le_baron]

I, too, am wondering whether Lange is on the verge of dramatically increased interest and demand (as has happened with FPJ). I wonder whether I should see if the first generation platinum Datograph I came across a few months ago at $40K is actually a deal I should consider. I never gave that Datograph real thought because $40K is more than twice the cost of my most expensive watch purchase to date.

[OJONES]

Originally Posted by le_baron

I, too, am wondering whether Lange is on the verge of dramatically increased interest and demand (as has happened with FPJ). I wonder whether I should see if the first generation platinum Datograph I came across a few months ago at $40K is actually a deal I should consider. I never gave that Datograph real thought because $40K is more than twice the cost of my most expensive watch purchase to date.

FPJ’s overall prices (CB excluded) are artificially high owing to being hovered up by a certain large scale grey. ALS production numbers are far too high for a similar bit of market manipulation.

[Etschell]

I just think journe is more current and hot.

Will it revert? Who knows.

Look at RM.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

I think ALS has started to figure out the game. Kill the ADs while opening boutiques with little or no room to move on price. Introduce models that are tough to get for special customers. Take advantage of the hype. Halo effect increases desirability of the rest of the catalogue. Dry up the secondary market.

FPJ had an easier time because they never made many pieces in the first place, and because they are independent. ALS had to deal with their overlords at Richemont.

Interesting, thx for posting. Recently I've been thinking about Bvlgari and how they seem to be trying to transition perception from fashion quartz to award earning mechanical marvels. I remember when Rogier Dubuis went on his own and the craftsmanship was incredible. Alas, he never really 'broke out' as FPJ is doing today imho.

[kaiserphoenix]

Yes im also seeing this. In Japan, its very hard to find 2nd hand Lange's like the datograph updown, lange 1 at the bargain prices we used to see. I was at the boutique and they have no lange 1s in stock and whilst I was there, I heard 2 callers call in about lange 1s....There is actually a list for it in Tokyo...

[NYG1121]

I am seeing a lot of local interest as well. It might be a result of just watches becoming more popular in general. And esp bc of the inflated rolex prices and unavailability, people are looking at brands like ALS and are shocked what a 20-30k watch actually looks and feels like minus the hype.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

I am seeing a lot of local interest as well. It might be a result of just watches becoming more popular in general. And esp bc of the inflated rolex prices and unavailability, people are looking at brands like ALS and are shocked what a 20-30k watch actually looks and feels like minus the hype.

As a Daytona and AL&S moon phase owner I can attest that you speak the truth.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Has FPJ broken out (your words), as far as I can see they have the CB and a marketing team at WB.

Well... given difficulty to get an allocation for most pieces, secondary market pricing and availability - they’re doing very well I think.

Plus, I’d imagine WB wanting to back a winner and FPJ is looking like it to them

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Has FPJ broken out (your words), as far as I can see they have the CB and a marketing team at WB.

Indeed.

Also, it's not hard to "break out" when there's a hype machine and you are production limited to 700 pieces per year.

[pdnb]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Used prices have been going up for a while now. Personally I hope they stay down until I can get a well priced datograph lol

And me a well priced ZW.. LoL!!!


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[pdnb]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Probably not. There’s no tortured looking genius behind the brand to get people intrigued. Unless of course watchbox decides it’s time lol

Love it!! Haha


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[pdnb]

Originally Posted by le_baron

I, too, am wondering whether Lange is on the verge of dramatically increased interest and demand (as has happened with FPJ). I wonder whether I should see if the first generation platinum Datograph I came across a few months ago at $40K is actually a deal I should consider. I never gave that Datograph real thought because $40K is more than twice the cost of my most expensive watch purchase to date.

Yup... made two large purchases and one was a 403 pt Dato earlier this year. Was in exact same thought process too


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[unknown]

no
simple answer but no.

Would have been different if they were independent but belonging to Richemont .. forget about it

[ts3]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Probably not. There’s no tortured looking genius behind the brand to get people intrigued. Unless of course watchbox decides it’s time lol

Truth

[sgwatchguy]

Thanks everyone for your responses, especially your views on ALS.

In hindsight, starting the post with a mention of FPJ has drawn more attention to FPJ than to ALS. I didn’t intend for that, though interestingly there’s been much less mention of VC who I also had on my post.

[b0rderman]

Richemont. No matter how subtle or significant the ownership affects pricing and reputation, the affect is not to the positive.

FPJ has a big corporate backer, as we all know, but they have cleverly (and perhaps sincerely) branded that relationship as a personal one.

[vman]

Used prices are going up... ALS, IMHO, is the most honest brand out there when you compare what you get for the price. Very little hype. Let's keep it that way.