Tudor Submariner from Yahoo auctions. How fake it is?

[DavidGuzman]

Hi!

First of all thank you for any comments on this post.

Story: I usually buy some watches from Yahoo auctions using Buyee (this is unnecessary info anyway). I came across this post: Tudor submariner. I knew for the auction price that is was not necessarily worth $10k usd but at least seams like a genuine Tudor to me... Nevertheless now I don't even now that, so many post that i have read the last few days... I'm scared. The watch has not arrived to the proxy seller but is on its way.

About the post: it said Tudor with engravings 9411/0, moving mechanism. That's it. I am attaching the photos together with the one showing that I won. By the way the final auction price was $1,220 usd...

So far I know the hands are weird and the case looks also too new.

From me: inexpensive usually but beautiful watches enthusiast, I have mostly seikos and citizens. I live in Düsseldorf, Germany.

Please if possible I would love to hear your opinions! I don't know if I should fight hard to Buyee.

[Mark020]

Everything is fake I think...

[offrdmania]

I like the sideways scratching between the lugs LOL

[Rebel]

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Mark020

Everything is fake I think...

Aaaaannnnndddddd you would be correct.

Sorry, OP, all no good - complete SnowFAKE. Not even a good fake - so get a refund.

[VintageVagabound]

I think the fact that it sold at auction for 90% off the going rate is an ominous sign. I hope you’re able to get a refund

[harry in montreal]

Rule of thumb, when the case looks so new on a snowflake.... it means that it was made recently. Sorry. Total fake

[DavidGuzman]

Thank you guys! :( I was hoping more of having a real tudor some how (i knew it wasn't a Snowflake by the price), but it seems that is not going to happen... Is not even a Tudor right?

[DavidGuzman]

I will try to get my refund!

[Nickn]

Where are these fakes coming from?

[DavidGuzman]

Originally Posted by Nickn

Where are these fakes coming from?

Yahoo Auctions Japan... I really was hoping that moral standards were higher there. It is also possible that the guy selling the watch did not knew, I don't want to judge.

I have purchase several watches there without any problem so far. A lesson here is that Yahoo Japan (using a Proxy service buyee) is not like eBay, literally it doesnt do nothing about counterfeits... A bit shady.

Btw: There are many now haha, now that I was busted I searched and it seems to be many "fake" tudors being auctioned, all of them going for 1000, 1200. I can see the scams there, probably only for internationals using the 3rd party proxys.... who knows.

[zapokee]

You're not getting a decent Tudor Snowflake for under 10 k in today's market. The pricing of this one is a no-brainer red flag, before you even look at the disaster of the watch itself.

[DavidGuzman]

Originally Posted by zapokee

You're not getting a decent Tudor Snowflake for under 10 k in today's market. The pricing of this one is a no-brainer red flag, before you even look at the disaster of the watch itself.

Lesson learned.

[harry in montreal]

eBay has tons of these fakes coming from Japan sellers. And hey seem to sell. I got tired of flagging fake watches and fake cases. Italy also seems to have many sellers listing fakes. Maybe the eBay branches are at fault for not booting these guys.

[MrChamfers]

Be wary of sellers in Japan too. The listings often have lines like "Because it is a vintage watch some parts may have been replaced."
Meanwhile just about every part is aftermarket.

[alwayshere]

Generally....and I use that term a bit more loosely now - Japanese sellers have historically been pretty honest but its gotten worse now and for some reason, the Tudor range seems to be the most flogged. Buyers beware.

[Boopie]

Are the women’s sizes (31-33) being faked too? There are a number of them on Chrono24. They are all under $5k, so their prices haven’t gotten as crazy as the 390-40mm have.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by Boopie

Are the women’s sizes (31-33) being faked too? There are a number of them on Chrono24. They are all under $5k, so their prices haven’t gotten as crazy as the 390-40mm have.

I doubt the Mini-subs are faked. No market for them

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

I doubt the Mini-subs are faked. No market for them

Right. They can't even sell the real ones.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Right. They can't even sell the real ones.

Really? Prices for Mini-Subs on eBay and elsewhere seem to have shot up lately, especially with Japanese dealers...seem to be pushing US$3k now. Pretty wide range of dealers, too.

[Boopie]

Thanks.

I know the price isn’t particularly high. I am interested in buying one for weekend wear and will post some possibilities here in another thread today. I love the Rolex professional lines, and have a ladies’ Yachtmaster and wore it daily for 20 years. I’m also intrigued about wearing a mini-Sub (a 40mm is too big for me). Plus, frankly, I love blue, and enjoy vintage watches, and the Tudor snowflake is different enough to appeal to me.

I’m worried more about a Frankenwatch with bad hands, bad re-lume and the wrong bezel. Maybe Tudor didn’t do a good of a job applyijg lume to the much smaller ladies watches in the 1970s as Rolex did with their Subs and GMTs at that time, because the many examples I’ve seen just look sloppy. Now that some have mentioned Japanese fakes, I have noticed some super-super clean examples (such as from Japan) where the case looks pretty perfect but there are some worn-out looking hands on it (non-snowflake mini Subs).

Also some of the overseas sellers on Chrono 24 did not post a lot of photos, or details. I sent out some inquiries yesterday, so I’ll wait to hear some responses. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time here looking at watches that are hard passes.

Did the mini Sub ever have Bakelite bezels? I can’t find any reference websites saying they did, but some online listings claim to have them. These are for snowflakes, so not the first generation Tudor Sub. Others have aluminum inserts that do or don’t have a luminous triangle for the zero marker on the bezel. It seems that only the larger size had a pearl on the bezel zero (like a Rolex Sub).

[Bareach123]

Dear Fellows,

I have been buying watches from Buyee 'Yahoo Japan Auctions' for quite a while now. I thought that Japanese sellers are very honest and trustworthy, however, my perception is changed after a bad experience. I don't want to generalize, but I must recommend all buyers to be aware of the Rolex/Tudor seller/sellers on Buyee Yahoo Japan Auctions.

I won an auction for a "Tudor submariner Prince Oyster 9411" for a final auction price of $1100. After going through the posts in this thread, I fear that I am also a victim of a fake Tudor. I know and I admit that it was my fault that I didn't research and consult an expert before bidding. I have tried my best to put my case in front of Buyee customer service. Unfortunately, they are not willing to offer any help. I have asked for a partial refund after deduction of all commissions, shipping costs, etc....But Buyee customers service is unwilling to help. All they say is that Buyee is just a proxy service and they do not have any control over sellers and their products.

As I said, I admit my fault. But I lost complete faith when I saw the same seller listing more Tudor watches from his account. I was utterly disappointed to see that despite complaints, the seller is actively selling these watches.

I understand that the parts of the watch are replaced/aftermarket which lowers the overall value of this watch. However, I want to know if these replaced aftermarket parts are original or not? Is the crown, back, case, and dial manufactured by Rolex/Tudor OR they are only Chinese-made replica watch parts in this case. I would be thankful for clarification in this regard.

**I have attached the pictures of the watch for review**

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Bareach123

Dear Fellows,

I have been buying watches from Buyee 'Yahoo Japan Auctions' for quite a while now. I thought that Japanese sellers are very honest and trustworthy, however, my perception is changed after a bad experience. I don't want to generalize, but I must recommend all buyers to be aware of the Rolex/Tudor seller/sellers on Buyee Yahoo Japan Auctions.

I won an auction for a "Tudor submariner Prince Oyster 9411" for a final auction price of $1100. After going through the posts in this thread, I fear that I am also a victim of a fake Tudor. I know and I admit that it was my fault that I didn't research and consult an expert before bidding. I have tried my best to put my case in front of Buyee customer service. Unfortunately, they are not willing to offer any help. I have asked for a partial refund after deduction of all commissions, shipping costs, etc....But Buyee customers service is unwilling to help. All they say is that Buyee is just a proxy service and they do not have any control over sellers and their products.

As I said, I admit my fault. But I lost complete faith when I saw the same seller listing more Tudor watches from his account. I was utterly disappointed to see that despite complaints, the seller is actively selling these watches.

I understand that the parts of the watch are replaced/aftermarket which lowers the overall value of this watch. However, I want to know if these replaced aftermarket parts are original or not? Is the crown, back, case, and dial manufactured by Rolex/Tudor OR they are only Chinese-made replica watch parts in this case. I would be thankful for clarification in this regard.

**I have attached the pictures of the watch for review**

Sorry - complete fake - even with these lousy photos. NONE of this is original, factory, or authorized Tudor. Complete replica parts.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Bareach123

Dear Fellows,

I have been buying watches from Buyee 'Yahoo Japan Auctions' for quite a while now. I thought that Japanese sellers are very honest and trustworthy, however, my perception is changed after a bad experience. I don't want to generalize, but I must recommend all buyers to be aware of the Rolex/Tudor seller/sellers on Buyee Yahoo Japan Auctions.

I won an auction for a "Tudor submariner Prince Oyster 9411" for a final auction price of $1100. After going through the posts in this thread, I fear that I am also a victim of a fake Tudor. I know and I admit that it was my fault that I didn't research and consult an expert before bidding. I have tried my best to put my case in front of Buyee customer service. Unfortunately, they are not willing to offer any help. I have asked for a partial refund after deduction of all commissions, shipping costs, etc....But Buyee customers service is unwilling to help. All they say is that Buyee is just a proxy service and they do not have any control over sellers and their products.

As I said, I admit my fault. But I lost complete faith when I saw the same seller listing more Tudor watches from his account. I was utterly disappointed to see that despite complaints, the seller is actively selling these watches.

I understand that the parts of the watch are replaced/aftermarket which lowers the overall value of this watch. However, I want to know if these replaced aftermarket parts are original or not? Is the crown, back, case, and dial manufactured by Rolex/Tudor OR they are only Chinese-made replica watch parts in this case. I would be thankful for clarification in this regard.

**I have attached the pictures of the watch for review**

+1 to LS's assessment. 100% fake.

Without rubbing salt to wound, why would you think for $1.1K you would be getting anything genuine Rolex / tudor? that should have been your first red flag no?