Buying a 14060 Submariner - need advice

[Cryptoconniption]

Hi guys, I found three no date subs I'm interested in from the same dealer and all come with the dealer's one year warranty. All are in excellent condition and are circa 2000.

One is $9,500, box, hashtag but no papers

One is $10,400, box, hashtag, but no papers. It comes with a service card (I assume from Rolex but need to find out) from just two months ago. (This could be good or could mean the watch had a problem?)

One is $12,600 and comes with box, all papers including the warranty card.

I still need to find out if any are polished, which is something I don't want.

I'm not buying this to flip but will probably want to sell for something else in a few years when I get bored. How desirable it it to have the papers? How about the recent service card? Given the details outlined, which would you go for? I can afford any of them but I'm not a rich guy so the $9,500 watch looks pretty nice right now.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[SirOfVold]

I trade my watches constantly and having a box and papers is always going to net you a much easier transaction on the back end. If the one at 10k is a Rolex service paper or at least rolli works or something like that then may be the one to go with. I’d say snag the one at 9plus but if you know you’re gonna move it def get some sort of papers and make your life easier on the other side.


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[Gab27]

I can almost guarantee you they are all polished (i.e., cosmetically refinished) to some extent beyond the initial finishing that was done when the watch was new. The term "unpolished" is generally a bit misleading as all Rolexes are polished, and a mighty many of the used Rolex watches will at least be touched up, as most buyers don't like purchasing a watch with scratches/obvious cosmetic defects. The issue arises not when a watch is polished but when it is polished improperly. Then you may see things like distorted reflections, uneven lugs, blunted crown guards, loss of chamfers, rounding of edges, severely faded clasp logo, overly light, heavy, or crooked brush lines, etc.

A service card is not indicative of a problem for a watch that age as anything made in 2000 will have likely had one or more services by now. Knowing the last time each was serviced is of benefit IMO as the price of a full overhaul is not inexpensive and generally not a rapid process--you can get some quick and dirty idea of the movement health from knowing the amplitude and beat error, although that isn't something a seller will necessarily disclose. Additionally, it's also good to have an idea of how much wear each bracelet has IMHO, as one of these may have more or less 'stretch' than the others.

I can't speak to the value side of things, but I personally prefer to purchase a watch that does have papers. I simply like having them and I also like being able to use them as documentation when insuring the watch.

But I'm far from an expert so these are just my notes/observations.

[rmagoo57]

Since they are all 20 ish years old, they will be due for their 2nd service. Option 2 is all set. Option 1 is probably due for one which is reflected in the lower price. So, 1 and 2 are a wash after a service. Option 3 at 12.6k should be in pristine condition.

I would pick 2 or 3 depending on condition. They are probably all polished.

[Cryptoconniption]

Thanks, guys. Looks like the $10,400 is the winner. I'll post pics when I get it for critiques.

[PepsiBezel]

I’m guessing you are looking at DavidSW? I’d feel pretty safe buying any from him. The 12K+ is priced higher because it is a “4-liner” with a random serial number.

[Speed]

Please be sure to post a picture of the "hashtag"

[Cryptoconniption]

Originally Posted by HarryFlashman

I’m guessing you are looking at DavidSW? I’d feel pretty safe buying any from him. The 12K+ is priced higher because it is a “4-liner” with a random serial number.

It was on that site. However, I now think the reason the others were lower priced is that they have service dials since only the expensive one was listed as an "M" and the others don't have tritium. I have to call on Monday. The expensive one was just sold, btw.

[Brich436]

So here’s the deal with polishing and touching a Rolex watch up. Unless you buy it from the original owner who has owned it since new - almost all will be polished or touched up. Bracelets always. Cases sometimes. Dealers are not going to sell a scratched up watch for 10k to the average buyer. What you have to be vigilant for is a bad polishing job which has been described above. With 14060 you will see a loss of the chamfered edges on the case and the spring bars will start to poke out of the holes (for models w lug holes).

To buy vintage watches correctly you really have to know what your doing. Service dials, hands and even crystals can affect value immensely. I prefer to buy my watches new and scratch them up myself!

It is crazy that a 14060 is almost $2k more than a new model but i do love that model as well! I don’t think you will be disappointed. I just remember when they sold for $4k! Urgh!


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[PepsiBezel]

Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption

It was on that site. However, I now think the reason the others were lower priced is that they have service dials since only the expensive one was listed as an "M" and the others don't have tritium. I have to call on Monday. The expensive one was just sold, btw.

DavidSW is held in the highest esteem amongst trusted sellers on TRF.

Both the 14060s have the correct dial - “Swiss Made” super luminova is expected for both A and P serial watches. Both are 14060Ms, even if he just listed them as 14060.

For your purpose, I’d go with the one serviced in March 2021 by an RSC. That’s a good value, and the watch should run well for a long time.

The “more expensive” one sold quickly because it is newer, and it has a number of minor nuances that super super fans get excited about, but which are hard to otherwise notice, and which aren’t necessarily worth the premium for someone who just wants to rock a aluminum bezel submariner.

Good luck!

[4vCoupe]

I remember when I paid a premium for a clean 2 liner. I thought I was crazy to pay $8k, now it’s not so bad. I also remember trying on a brand new random serial 4 liner at the AD, my wife was with me and told me to get it. Sad to say I didn’t listen to her, it was $6,300.


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[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by HarryFlashman

DavidSW is held in the highest esteem amongst trusted sellers on TRF.

Both the 14060s have the correct dial - “Swiss Made” super luminova is expected for both A and P serial watches. Both are 14060Ms, even if he just listed them as 14060.

For your purpose, I’d go with the one serviced in March 2021 by an RSC. That’s a good value, and the watch should run well for a long time.

The “more expensive” one sold quickly because it is newer, and it has a number of minor nuances that super super fans get excited about, but which are hard to otherwise notice, and which aren’t necessarily worth the premium for someone who just wants to rock a aluminum bezel submariner.

Good luck!

And I would pick the one for less money and have it serviced yourself (If it needs it) and skip the polish. The one that has recently been serviced seems to have had a harder life. For some reason the outside of several lugs have been rounded off... Maybe they were beat up or chipped. And the bracelet has some stretch, the coronet on the clasp is kind of soft... Just a few things.

And yeah, the more expensive one was a 4-line version which do go for more and was a random serial which were the last produced. These and V serials seem to have a bit more value (V serials were the last serials before random serial numbers so are desirable to some. Random serials on 14060's were the last and some have a Parachrom hairspring which is desirable to some)

I can barely believe that the prices on these have doubled since I bought mine 2&1/2 years ago...

[Kowaco]

Buy the cheapest one, send it to RSC


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[Cryptoconniption]

Thanks again, guys. I pulled the trigger on a mint condition full papers 14060 Swiss only with luminova - the version just before the M. Not from DavidSW though. I'm excited!

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption

Thanks again, guys. I pulled the trigger on a mint condition full papers 14060 Swiss only with luminova - the version just before the M. Not from DavidSW though. I'm excited!

Post pics when you get it!

[Gab27]

Congrats!

[GB-man]

Congrats

[Rick_Nashville]

Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption

Thanks again, guys. I pulled the trigger on a mint condition full papers 14060 Swiss only with luminova - the version just before the M. Not from DavidSW though. I'm excited!

Nice find. Congrats! I like all iterations of the 14060. It's a totally cool, totally badass watch. Looking forward to the pics.

[Alex369]

Polished = no big deal

Over polished = not good

(btw...I have a 14060m 4-line and absolutely love it!)

[Cryptoconniption]

I bought my first Rolex! Here's the 14060 Swiss only Sub I bought from Chrono. It's looks unworn and came with all the paperwork also in mint condition. It also included, not mentioned in the ad, a receipt for a service in 2019 that still has some warranty left on it which was a nice surprise.

Unfortunately when I went to my local AD to get the included link added they just got in some Datejusts. So I bought my second Rolex. I sense a problem developing.

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

[Gerry62]

Nice pair. My 14060 is also a Swiss only Ser U

your serial ?

[Cryptoconniption]

Originally Posted by Gerry62

Nice pair. My 14060 is also a Swiss only Ser U

your serial ?

A564618

I just looked it up and it's from 1999. I thought it was a '97. I thought they only made the Swiss only in 97 and 98. Am I wrong?

[Haveapair]

Papers aren't worth 3k, recent service papers aren't worth 1k.

So if the watches are all in excellent shape, get the one without papers.

Or also look elsewhere, check out DavidSW, DavidSW, David Ess Double You

[Haveapair]

Originally Posted by rmagoo57

Since they are all 20 ish years old, they will be due for their 2nd service. Option 2 is all set. Option 1 is probably due for one which is reflected in the lower price. So, 1 and 2 are a wash after a service. Option 3 at 12.6k should be in pristine condition.

I would pick 2 or 3 depending on condition. They are probably all polished.

How about #1 then get a $600 service if it is needed? Better idea than going with 2 or 3 don't you think?

[Gerry62]

Originally Posted by Cryptoconniption

A564618

I just looked it up and it's from 1999. I thought it was a '97. I thought they only made the Swiss only in 97 and 98. Am I wrong?

[Cryptoconniption]

[QUOTE=Gerry62;11469152]

Does it make sense that I have a Swiss only dial from 1999? I originally thought that those were only made in 97 and 98 and if that's the case my dial would be something added to the wrong watch. What do you know about those Swiss only versions?

UPDATE: It's okay, I found this which suggests I was wrong about the dates. 1999 is good. FYI:

https://millenarywatches.com/watches...ss-only-14060/

Thanks everybody!

[spinitch]

Congrats, I love my 14060 as well.