Sotheby's Reneged on a Winning Rolex Bid

[fullofboats]

Dear TRF,

I need some advice on next steps.

I recently won an auction for a Rolex at a Sotheby's live auction. I subsequently paid the invoice in full with Sotheby's confirming receipt of payment. I then subsequently paid for Sotheby's shipping in full and received confirmation that my property was in queue to be shipped and that I would receive a tracking number shortly.

Three days later still no tracking number so I followed up with Sotheby's and was told that "Sotheby's is no longer able to honor this sale."

I believe that legally the watch is already my property as I won the auction and made full payment. I would not be satisfied with a refund as my winning bid is significantly below the cost to purchase a similar watch in the market. Anyone hear of a similar experience with an auction house? Any lawyer in NY that anyone can recommend that is familiar with auction law, etc?

Thanks

[MrGoat]

Did you read terms and conditions? Did they accept your payment and subsequently charge your card? If not then according to their terms and conditions (#2 in the link) they can decide to not honor the sale. https://www.sothebys.com/en/retail-terms-conditions


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[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Did you read terms and conditions? Did they accept your payment and subsequently charge your card? If not then according to their terms and conditions (#2 in the link) they can decide to not honor the sale. https://www.sothebys.com/en/retail-terms-conditions


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"I subsequently paid the invoice in full with Sotheby's confirming receipt of payment."

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

"I subsequently paid the invoice in full with Sotheby's confirming receipt of payment."

“And your method of payment is charged.”

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[Chris]

Case # 2: Seller wants to withdraw the item in a with reserve or without reserve auction after the auctioneer announces, “Sold!” The word, “Sold!” means that a contract has been formed between the seller and a buyer. If the seller wishes to void this contract, or withdraw from this contract, it can only be done with the consent of the buyer.

For example, the seller could say, “Gosh, I really didn’t want to sell my grandmother’s wedding ring, and I hope you (the buyer) understand … is it okay with you if I (the seller) just keep it, and you don’t pay for it?” Outside of mutual release from the contract, the seller’s voiding or withdrawal constitute a breach of contract; the buyer can sue for specific performance or compensatory and typically win easily.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

“And your method of payment is charged.”

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Thanks

As I said I paid in full and Sotheby's confirmed receipt of payment. My credit card has been charged already.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

Thanks

As I said I paid in full and Sotheby's confirmed receipt of payment. My credit card has been charged already.

Didn’t see you state your credit card had been charged. That’s why I asked. I would go to Sotheby’s for an explanation as to why they wouldn’t honor the sale before going the attorney route. They may have something else hidden in their T&C that indemnifies them. I’m curious to hear their reasoning and hope you get a desirable resolution.


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[dannyp]

I'm assuming that at least part of this will depend on whether the auction house has possession of the watch, or if the seller somehow pulled out vs. "we think we can make more money re-listing it so we're going to back out" right? Then again, not a lawyer nor auction expert.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by dannyp

I'm assuming that at least part of this will depend on whether the auction house has possession of the watch, or if the seller somehow pulled out vs. "we think we can make more money re-listing it so we're going to back out" right? Then again, not a lawyer nor auction expert.

They gave no explanation as to why they can't honor the sale.

The fact their post sales service team confirmed the watch was in queue to be shipped makes me think they already had the watch in their possession.

EDIT: Correction. Looking at the shipping invoice, I see that it clearly states "Collect from Sotheby's". So Sotheby's had/have my watch.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

They gave no explanation as to why they can't honor the sale.

The fact their post sales service team confirmed the watch was in queue to be shipped makes me think they already had the watch in their possession.

I have no idea how these things work, but is it ever the case where the seller ships directly, and “in queue” means that they’ve sent seller the shipping instructions? Or is that just for the stuff on poshmark etc?

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

They gave no explanation as to why they can't honor the sale.

The fact their post sales service team confirmed the watch was in queue to be shipped makes me think they already had the watch in their possession.

They had the watch in their possession. I'd go up the chain of command at Sotheby's and find out what happened before anything further. I wouldn't accept the money back at this point.

This is a pretty large risk to their reputation, they are supposed to be the best of the best. They should make it right somehow. Not sure how.

[Chris]

Case #1: Seller wants to withdraw the item in a without reserve auction after the opening solicitation for bids, and after a bid is received within a reasonable time. This case is clearly prohibited by contract law precedent and the UCC 2-328. Court cases with standing in this type of withdraw have ruled nearly unanimously that the seller may not withdraw the item given these circumstances.

[AJMarcus]

Sounds like case close now that your money’s been refunded. There’s no financial loss just disappointment. Sorry about that OP. For all you know Sotheby’s pulled the auction because of something wrong about the watch and/or the seller. It happens. Consider yourself fortunate.

[brandrea]

Subscribed. I’ll be interested to hear what comes of this.

What was the watch?

Good luck OP

[DESH]

sorry to hear about this OP! What did you get Daytona/ GMT was it below retail? please elaborate!

[TswaneNguni]

Didn't fetch the minimum price ? Yet,payment accepted and invoiced .Strange and fishy .

Maybe you should let it go and get the money back .

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Didn't fetch the minimum price ? Yet,payment accepted and invoiced .Strange and fishy .

Maybe you should let it go and get the money back .

My winning bid was within the estimate range and therefore above the reserve. The hammer was down and I "won" the auction. I see it in my Sotheby's profile under won lots, I received an invoice with payment link (which I paid), then received a shipping quote (which I also paid).

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

My winning bid was within the estimate range and therefore above the reserve. The hammer was down and I "won" the auction. I see it in my Sotheby's profile under won lots, I received an invoice with payment link (which I paid), then received a shipping quote (which I also paid).

The issue is clearly that you feel you got a great deal, otherwise you would just move on. Sotheby’s isn’t going to like you getting a great deal, so they clearly canceled the sale. It’s the same stuff people do on eBay. Sucks.


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[ks58]

That's crazy. They should figure out how to obtain the watch you bought and work with you as the bidder that won.

[GONZO2LR]

if you used a credit card, dispute the charge...

[JodyHighroller]

Originally Posted by GONZO2LR

if you used a credit card, dispute the charge...

That’s not applicable in this case. The OP wants the property he won and has already paid for.

OP - please keep us posted. Hope it works out in your favor!

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by GONZO2LR

if you used a credit card, dispute the charge...

That’s a bit silly, he wants the item, that’s the whole point

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by GONZO2LR

if you used a credit card, dispute the charge...

Did you even read his post? He clearly states "I would not be satisfied with a refund" Which means that he wants the watch.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by GONZO2LR

if you used a credit card, dispute the charge...

All that will get him is his money back. I'm sure that's exactly what the aution house wants.

The issue here is "how have you been harmed?" if you get your money back?

Even if a judge somehow agreed on the price paid vs market value difference and awarded you that as "damage" or "forced" them to complete the sale...is it more or less than what you'll spend pursuing it?

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[dhknola]

I am pretty surprised by this and am paying attention.
I have heard of games at 'local' brick and mortar auction houses where they realize after a lot sells they 'messed up' and will renege on the sale, but not at Sotheby's level. I would think be Sotheby's/Christie's/Bonham's that they would have their ducks in a line.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by dhknola

I am pretty surprised by this and am paying attention.
I have heard of games at 'local' brick and mortar auction houses where they realize after a lot sells they 'messed up' and will renege on the sale, but not at Sotheby's level. I would think be Sotheby's/Christie's/Bonham's that they would have their ducks in a line.

Sotheby's/ Christies/Bonhams have been caught in shenanigans that dwarf this.
Not sure where you would get the impression they are completely above board.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Sotheby's/ Christies/Bonhams have been caught in shenanigans that dwarf this.
Not sure where you would get the impression they are completely above board.

Exactly. Read: It has to be a lot bigger, with a lot more at stake, to risk the company's name and reputation.

[dannyp]

The OP mentioned it was a ”live“ auction, but was it in-person or online, and if the latter, does that fall under the “Digital Platform” T&C referenced?

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

Dear TRF,

I need some advice on next steps.

I recently won an auction for a Rolex at a Sotheby's live auction. I subsequently paid the invoice in full with Sotheby's confirming receipt of payment. I then subsequently paid for Sotheby's shipping in full and received confirmation that my property was in queue to be shipped and that I would receive a tracking number shortly.

Three days later still no tracking number so I followed up with Sotheby's and was told that "Sotheby's is no longer able to honor this sale."

I believe that legally the watch is already my property as I won the auction and made full payment. I would not be satisfied with a refund as my winning bid is significantly below the cost to purchase a similar watch in the market. Anyone hear of a similar experience with an auction house? Any lawyer in NY that anyone can recommend that is familiar with auction law, etc?

Thanks

What watch did you purchased and how much less than market price? See you are from Hong Kong, so imagine this was all online ?



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[Cambo]

Sorry to hear...this is interesting and quite scary if they're somehow allowed to do this.

Can't imagine Sotheby's supporting a seller that wants to renege...more likely they'd tell them to pound sand...been sold.