Restoration or Refurbishment?

[A321]

Hello!

My dad has always worn a Rolex submariner, issued to him in the military. Recently while visiting he showed me another watch he had been issued years ago (sometime around 1964 +/- ). I need a little "expert" advice on this one.

- Its a Tudor Submariner, but I don't know much about Tudor's and not sure if its worth the time and effort to get it worked on.

- If so, is it better to have it restored or refurbished to "like new"?

- Who are the trusted names to have these worked on? I'm in the US (Utah)

- Tried to take some pics to show its condition. Some of the Lumen dots have come loose and are inside the case, but just floating around inside. When I picked up the watch it immediately started running -- good sign I am assuming?

- This watch is well worn, but literally hasn't been worn probably since 1970 at the latest.


I respect all your info and advice. Genuinely not sure what I have here.

[Tools]

Talk with a professional about what should, and should not, be done.

Bob Ridley in Texas is a long time professional for vintage Rolex.

Phillip Ridley in Arizona is carrying on in his fathers tradition.

[MrChamfers]

For one thing, don't mess with that nice FAT insert.

[swish77]

Definitely restore, not refurbish, although I'd leave that case alone. Looks nice and fat. Insert looks great too.

The dial appears to be your biggest issue, and you'll want to get that loose tritium out of there ASAP. You could go three routes: leave the dial alone and just chalk it up to a life well lived; have it restored/relumed by a vintage dial expert; or source an original dial (expensive). If it were me, I'd probably have the dial restored as best as possible. Maybe it just needs relumed or the tritium hour plots could be reattached somehow. It's already shot, so losing its originality wouldn't really be a concern. Then get the movement serviced and you're good to go.

There are several watchmakers often mentioned on this forum (LAWW, Rolliworks, the Ridleys, Zimmerman, for example), and there are some great Tudor experts here who might be able to help further. Maybe it's the photo, but that unsigned crown looks aftermarket. If that's the case, I'd try to source an original.

Good luck.

[springer]

I'd restore the dial. Aesthetically, it would look much nicer and surely make for a much better resale some day.

The other option would be to find an original unmolested dial which I suspect would cost around $2500.

It all depends on your budget, restore or replace.

[southtexas]

Interesting that the plots came off intact. Maybe they can be reattached? By the way- I wouldn’t run that watch any more with those floating around in there.

What is the serial of the watch?

Also, any pics of the old Rolex sub your dad has?

[Dan S]

I'm curious which country's military did your father serve in where he was issued this Tudor Sub?

[harry in montreal]

Just so you don’t get ripped off, the rotating bezel is a nice old part. Its a 1000-1500 part alone. Don’t let a watchmaker make off with it.
The caseback looks later than 1964 but the insert is consistent with pre66. Can you share the serial number on here? No need for all 6 digits. Just the first 3 like 444,xxx.
I think the dial has been redone. The word submariner is asymmetrical or maybe it’s crystal distortion. The crown has a melting away too.
Anyway it’s a great watch. The lume is loose inside which is no good. If you are looking for the best, then bob Ridley is the man for the work.

[Stan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I'm curious which country's military did your father serve in where he was issued this Tudor Sub?

According to the Tudor website, the U.S. Navy issued Tudor Subs in the 1960s.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/en/inside...litary-watches

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

According to the Tudor website, the U.S. Navy issued Tudor Subs in the 1960s.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/en/inside...litary-watches

Several countries did, which is why I asked the question.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Just so you don’t get ripped off, the rotating bezel is a nice old part. Its a 1000-1500 part alone. Don’t let a watchmaker make off with it.
The caseback looks later than 1964 but the insert is consistent with pre66. Can you share the serial number on here? No need for all 6 digits. Just the first 3 like 444,xxx.
I think the dial has been redone. The word submariner is asymmetrical or maybe it’s crystal distortion. The crown has a melting away too.
Anyway it’s a great watch. The lume is loose inside which is no good. If you are looking for the best, then bob Ridley is the man for the work.

This is good advice on making sure you have back what you give to a watchmaker. Don't let them convince you otherwise around "new insert is nicer".

As others may have mentioned, the dial is a service dial. The original would likely had a rose tudor logo. This should be a 7928 or a 7016 - check the lug engravings.

The lume plots can definitely be reattached if the watchmaker is careful. A little old polywatch will clear up the crystal. Crown looks odd - wonder if its been replaced or its been significantly worn.

Otherwise a nice little piece!

[linesiders]

i will follow up in detail tomorrow but this is either a 68 7016 with a service dial or a 69/70 7016 with 74xk serial. Let us know what the serial # is - and get some nicer photos

[A321]

Thanks for all the advice so far. I am looking for the engravings near the lugs, but im having a hard time making out anything there -- Ill try and clean it off a bit better and see what I can and let you all know.

As for the history. He was in the US Air Force, Pararescue or PJ's. They were trained at Navy Dive School and Army Jump School and primary worked to rescue downed pilots during the war. For him that was Viet Nam. At the time, and I think its still true, they are the most decorated group serving in the Air Force.

Yes, issued the Rolex Submariner which is what he always wore, and until yesterday never even knew he had this one -- never wore it that I can remember, and it has no band. It obviously got used as the crown looks so worn I cant make out any logo, and the scuffs on the case and lugs.

[A321]

Ok, so things are pretty worn but this is what I have:

Model # 7016/0
Ser # 62xxxx

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by A321

Ok, so things are pretty worn but this is what I have:

Model # 7016/0
Ser # 62xxxx

cool, looks like Linesider and I were pretty close with our guesses being a possible 7016. Looks like a 68/69 year model then?

Definitely worth restoring.

[linesiders]

62x serial is 1968. This is a Semi Pointed Crown guard which is from early 68, the dial is a service dial from later. I suspect the watch was somehow compromised and the dial / hands switched as a result.

Need better photos ; )

Air Force PJs are known to have had Tudors issued, they are unmarked.

PJs also did recoveries of downed space capsules for NASA

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by A321

As for the history. He was in the US Air Force, Pararescue or PJ's. They were trained at Navy Dive School and Army Jump School and primary worked to rescue downed pilots during the war. For him that was Viet Nam. At the time, and I think its still true, they are the most decorated group serving in the Air Force.

Yes, issued the Rolex Submariner which is what he always wore, and until yesterday never even knew he had this one -- never wore it that I can remember, and it has no band. It obviously got used as the crown looks so worn I cant make out any logo, and the scuffs on the case and lugs.

Great history on these watches!

[77T]

Originally Posted by springer

I'd restore the dial. Aesthetically, it would look much nicer and surely make for a much better resale some day.



The other option would be to find an original unmolested dial which I suspect would cost around $2500.



It all depends on your budget, restore or replace.

Originally Posted by Tools

Talk with a professional about what should, and should not, be done.



Bob Ridley in Texas is a long time professional for vintage Rolex.



Phillip Ridley in Arizona is carrying on in his fathers tradition.

I think these are the best suggestions (within the budget you might have).

Prepare to spend more than your Dad might countenance (and you may need to prevaricate later) for what he considered a “work watch”.

It’s the sentimental value methinks.


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[Oyster Perp]

As has been said. Minimum refurb and wear it with pride. !!

[Pouakai]

Originally Posted by A321

Hello!



My dad has always worn a Rolex submariner, issued to him in the military. Recently while visiting he showed me another watch he had been issued years ago (sometime around 1964 +/- ). I need a little "expert" advice on this one.



- Its a Tudor Submariner, but I don't know much about Tudor's and not sure if its worth the time and effort to get it worked on.



- If so, is it better to have it restored or refurbished to "like new"?



- Who are the trusted names to have these worked on? I'm in the US (Utah)



- Tried to take some pics to show its condition. Some of the Lumen dots have come loose and are inside the case, but just floating around inside. When I picked up the watch it immediately started running -- good sign I am assuming?



- This watch is well worn, but literally hasn't been worn probably since 1970 at the latest.





I respect all your info and advice. Genuinely not sure what I have here.

Hi just reigniting this thread. How is the restoration going? Did you talk with Bob or Phillip Ridley?

Also great story!

The Ridleys seem to do great work on dials. Keen to see how it all works out.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[A321]

Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I have been working with Phillip Ridley, he has been incredibly helpful.

He is restoring it as much as possible, but unfortunately given the state of the dial, it needed to be replaced -- thankful he was able to source one. I'm excited to see the finished product, and plan on passing this watch, my fathers (his grandfathers), on to my son for a "new" family heirloom. With luck, his son will someday be wearing the same watch his great grandfather wore!

Phillip has been great to work with so far and has been super helpful throughout this entire process.

I'll try and upload some pics once it is back home.

[Sglass]

Originally Posted by A321

Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I have been working with Phillip Ridley, he has been incredibly helpful.

He is restoring it as much as possible, but unfortunately given the state of the dial, it needed to be replaced -- thankful he was able to source one. I'm excited to see the finished product, and plan on passing this watch, my fathers (his grandfathers), on to my son for a "new" family heirloom. With luck, his son will someday be wearing the same watch his great grandfather wore!

Phillip has been great to work with so far and has been super helpful throughout this entire process.

I'll try and upload some pics once it is back home.

Glad to hear it’s getting the full restore. Definitely a great story and family heirloom!

[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by Tools

Talk with a professional about what should, and should not, be done.

Bob Ridley in Texas is a long time professional for vintage Rolex.

Phillip Ridley in Arizona is carrying on in his fathers tradition.

I do believe that Bob has retired now?

Phillip has done wok for me and is as talented and meticulous as his father.

[A321]

Got the watch back from Phillip Ridley — he did an amazing job! I cant say enough good about him and his work. Rare to find such a nice guy, who loves what he does and is genuinely interested in you and the watch. He was such a pleasure to work with and I would recommend him to anyone who is looking for true professional.

I’m attaching a few pics of the finished product so you can see the quality of his work.

This is a “new” family heirloom, and I will be giving this to my son who now lives just outside London. We may need to have the size of the band adjusted (link added) and I was wondering if there is anyone who has any English contacts they like for working on vintage Rolex/Tudor watches?

[Juhuatai]

Beautiful watch, phillip did a fantastic job! I have a watch with him right now and I'm glad it's in safe hands.

[TimeLord2]

Phillip does do great work! Looks fantastic! I do wonder how he fixed those lume plots that were rattling around in the case. It now looks completely unmolested.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

Phillip does do great work! Looks fantastic! I do wonder how he fixed those lume plots that were rattling around in the case. It now looks completely unmolested.

The loose lume plots were largely intact so I suspect they just secured it with slow drying adhesive in its original place.

[Tools]

Great looking watch.

[A321]

Any Ideas from anyone here about who to reach out to in the UK (London area) to get it fit to my sons wrist? Phillip suggested to me that just the run of the mill Rolex/Tudor dealer may not be the best equipped to add a link to the bracelet.

Suggestions?

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by A321

Any Ideas from anyone here about who to reach out to in the UK (London area) to get it fit to my sons wrist? Phillip suggested to me that just the run of the mill Rolex/Tudor dealer may not be the best equipped to add a link to the bracelet.

Suggestions?

Before you go external, its worth measuring how big your son's wrist is to begin with.

I say that because there is some flexibility in the existing clasp to adjust bigger or smaller. If your son's wrist is there or thereabouts, you could easily move that pin up or down on the clasp to micro adjust - it'll save you a trip and $$.

If variance is too big, best to get a professional to do it. The folded bracelets are a nuisance (needs to be unfolded then refolded individually).