Faded Fat Lady as my first Rolex

[triman_82]

Dear All,

I'm about the take the plug into my first Rolex. I've settled on this 16760 with a faded bezel which I love. I was wondering if you guys could comment on the condition of it and/or what I should look for (or questions to ask) before I hand over the dough?

Thanks in advanced!
Adrian

[jamesthejeweller]

I love a Sophia Loren, I have a NOS box, papers in the vault and it's glorious, a lot of firsts for the GMT master in this reference, including Sapphire crystal, independent GMT hand, white gold hour indices and most important it was the first 'coke' GMT

My only comments are that the hand set or dial do not match, so I think the dial may have been replaced a long while ago.

You can't go wrong with this reference though.

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[watchaholic777]

Wow the fat lady aka Sophia Loren is one of my favorite gmt models

[kegan]

I can be no help on authenticity but I have to say I love the look of it. I really like the no date dial.

[Deep18]

Condition looks good. I’d like to see the latest service records if they have them. Great piece though, love all the GMTs.

[joli160]

I like a no date dial. The insert looks blueish faded but should be originally black.
Perhaps just my screen

[kegan]

You might want to consider posting this on the vintage side. Many experts there that might not spend a lot of time on this side of the forum.

[opawlows]

Love this version of the 16760! No "Date" dial was only used for the first run of these if I am not mistaken. Had one and sold it about 15 years ago to help purchase my first home. If you do not decide to move on this one, PM me as I am in the market again for another!

[Tensai]

I will leave authentication to others, but kudos for picking this classic model as your first rolex and not one of those hyped green things

[asb396]

Originally Posted by jamesthejeweller

I love a Sophia Loren, I have a NOS box, papers in the vault and it's glorious, a lot of firsts for the GMT master in this reference, including Sapphire crystal, independent GMT hand, white gold hour indices and most important it was the first 'coke' GMT

My only comments are that the hand set or dial do not match, so I think the dial may have been replaced a long while ago.

You can't go wrong with this reference though.

Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

Thanks James - why do you think they dont match. To me this actually looks like a very good example! Everything matches early no date 16760

OP post on vintage forum where it belongs. Great find!

[OrangeSport]

Originally Posted by joli160

I like a no date dial. The insert looks blueish faded but should be originally black.
Perhaps just my screen

QUOTE=opawlows;11785029]Love this version of the 16760! No "Date" dial was only used for the first run of these if I am not mistaken. Had one and sold it about 15 years ago to help purchase my first home. If you do not decide to move on this one, PM me as I am in the market again for another![/QUOTE]

What am I missing? It has a date

[triman_82]

?Molded? Fat Lady

Dear Gents,

I recently got into watches and fell in love with this faded Fat Lady. Being a full set, it's priced at US$22k which is higher than non-faded Fat Ladies (US$16k where I am).

While inspecting the watch, I notice that the dial is ?molded? I don't know whether this adjective is correct or not, but you can see from the video that there are "spots" all over the dial. The sales person told me that a lot of Mk1 Fat Ladies have these spots, and it's a matter how how many/ big these spots are vs whether there are spots or not. During my search, I saw a Mk 2 fat lady which has more of a matt dial and didn't have this condition.

[The attached zip file is a video that shows the spots very clearly]

Is this a big issue/ deal breaker? I love everything else about the watch.... But should I walk away because of these spots?

Greatly appreciate any advice

Watch on,
Adrian

[triman_82]

Thanks so much for the advice guys. After seeing the watch for a second time, I noticed some "spot" on the dial, I wonder if that's a deal breaker? Is it mold?

jamesthejeweller
Wow! I'm speechless that you have a fat lady NOS. I was having a discussion with my wife whether it was possible for NOS to have a faded bezel or cream loop. Care to share your opinion and/or photos of your beauty *drool*

Kegan
Yeah, I really like this no date too. After learning about not date, I've been looking at different watch and FYI, all 16750 are also no-date *wink*

Thanks for advice re vintage message board. Have posted over there

Deep18
This watch doesn't have service records, and from where I am (Hong Kong) I've never heard of ppl talk about service records. There's something call "go-to-authroized-service-center" papers here. But the point of that is to prove the Rolex was willing to service the watch which proves it's authenticity. Should I ask for service records? Is it something important (like cars)?

joli160
In real life, the black as faded is a very nice grey. Out of all the gmt's, new or old, this grey red is actually my absolute favourite combination

opawlows
DM me, in my search for fat ladies, I've found quite a few nice pieces. If you let me know exactly what you're looking for, mk1 mk2, faded, condition level, box, etc

Tensai
Funny you should say that, for my second piece, I'm decided between "those green things" and a Batman =P

orangesport
No-date refers to the "Oyster Perpetual" under the Rolex crown on the dial. If you look at most GMT's it says Oyster Perpetual DATE. This one doesn't have it, which some believe Rolex made a mistake, hence "no-date"

[jamesthejeweller]

Originally Posted by asb396

Thanks James - why do you think they dont match. To me this actually looks like a very good example! Everything matches early no date 16760



OP post on vintage forum where it belongs. Great find!

The Second hand lume looks a bit too far gone, there are some machevellian people out there who do all sorts of things to dials and handsets, typically if that watch has the original dial and hand set, to a degree the patina of the lume should be very even amongst all the plots, this does not account for humidity and historic water damage, but vintage Rolex was my business for 10 years and I'm usually right but also very prepared to be wrong about my observations. Of course a full inspection would be needed to make a conclusive position on the piece, but I think there is something up with the dial or the hands on this piece.

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[TimeToGo]

Paint issues on the dial, common with this model / time period.

Looks like there are other issues with the hands that you will have to address.

I think the price is rich...

[brigadoonb]

Love mine as well. Not to sound rough though….dial looks a bit rough and the hands do seem to be a mismatch. Pictures are hard to be 100% though too. Mine is a 86 and the black bezel is not nearly as faded, which is fine. Price is very healthy too but I’m also half way around the world. Good luck.


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[brandrea]

Buy the seller and you needn’t worry

Welcome to the forum

[Old Expat Beast]

US$22k!? Wow.

[triman_82]

Yeah, I was/am very worried about the hands. 1) the lum cream-ness doesn't match. 2) The ones on the hands are starting to crack. The advice I keep hearing is to buy the seller, not the watch and this is one of, if not the MOST REPUTABLE professional dealer here in Hong Kong with over 20 years of experience in the market. If you're into watches here in HK, you would know him.

I realise I'm paying a very big premium for this watch. My reason are
1) the faded bezel. I'm under the impression that a faded bezel is worth MORE than a pristine black and red one. That's the main reason I'm attracted to this watch, because of the "grey" red combination
2) the huge reputation of the seller. Since this is my first watch ever, I figured that I'd pay a little more for the peace of mind
3) This 1988 watch is a full set with paper. Same reason as #2, want to be safer since it's my first watch
4) Lume is creamy which I like, but I do realise the lume plots on the hands is in pretty bad condition. <-- what can I do to "fix" this and/or slow down the chance it deteriorating?

Are these a good enough reasons to pay the extra premium?

Originally Posted by brigadoonb

Love mine as well. Not to sound rough though….dial looks a bit rough and the hands do seem to be a mismatch. Pictures are hard to be 100% though too. Mine is a 86 and the black bezel is not nearly as faded, which is fine. Price is very healthy too but I’m also half way around the world. Good luck.


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[Garywebster]

Originally Posted by triman_82

Thanks so much for the advice guys. After seeing the watch for a second time, I noticed some "spot" on the dial, I wonder if that's a deal breaker? Is it mold?

jamesthejeweller
Wow! I'm speechless that you have a fat lady NOS. I was having a discussion with my wife whether it was possible for NOS to have a faded bezel or cream loop. Care to share your opinion and/or photos of your beauty *drool*

Kegan
Yeah, I really like this no date too. After learning about not date, I've been looking at different watch and FYI, all 16750 are also no-date *wink*

Thanks for advice re vintage message board. Have posted over there

Deep18
This watch doesn't have service records, and from where I am (Hong Kong) I've never heard of ppl talk about service records. There's something call "go-to-authroized-service-center" papers here. But the point of that is to prove the Rolex was willing to service the watch which proves it's authenticity. Should I ask for service records? Is it something important (like cars)?

joli160
In real life, the black as faded is a very nice grey. Out of all the gmt's, new or old, this grey red is actually my absolute favourite combination

opawlows
DM me, in my search for fat ladies, I've found quite a few nice pieces. If you let me know exactly what you're looking for, mk1 mk2, faded, condition level, box, etc

Tensai
Funny you should say that, for my second piece, I'm decided between "those green things" and a Batman =P

orangesport
No-date refers to the "Oyster Perpetual" under the Rolex crown on the dial. If you look at most GMT's it says Oyster Perpetual DATE. This one doesn't have it, which some believe Rolex made a mistake, hence "no-date"

Beautiful

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by triman_82

Yeah, I was/am very worried about the hands. 1) the lum cream-ness doesn't match. 2) The ones on the hands are starting to crack. The advice I keep hearing is to buy the seller, not the watch and this is one of, if not the MOST REPUTABLE professional dealer here in Hong Kong with over 20 years of experience in the market. If you're into watches here in HK, you would know him.

I realise I'm paying a very big premium for this watch. My reason are
1) the faded bezel. I'm under the impression that a faded bezel is worth MORE than a pristine black and red one. That's the main reason I'm attracted to this watch, because of the "grey" red combination
2) the huge reputation of the seller. Since this is my first watch ever, I figured that I'd pay a little more for the peace of mind
3) This 1988 watch is a full set with paper. Same reason as #2, want to be safer since it's my first watch
4) Lume is creamy which I like, but I do realise the lume plots on the hands is in pretty bad condition. <-- what can I do to "fix" this and/or slow down the chance it deteriorating?

Are these a good enough reasons to pay the extra premium?

Honestly I wouldn't touch that watch at that price, or anywhere near, whoever the dealer is. You're in one of the greatest cities in the world for buying vintage Rolex. Take advantage of that. Enjoy the hunt.

[gilel]

1988 seems very (very) late for a no date dial. Am I wrong ?

gilel

[triman_82]

Great catch! I mis-remembered. It's a 842xxxx serial number so it should be between '84-'85. See attached

Originally Posted by gilel

1988 seems very (very) late for a no date dial. Am I wrong ?

gilel

[strafer_kid]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Honestly I wouldn't touch that watch at that price, or anywhere near, whoever the dealer is. You're in one of the greatest cities in the world for buying vintage Rolex. Take advantage of that. Enjoy the hunt.

This sounds like real good advice. No issue at all with the bona fides of the seller, but that does not improve the actual condition of the watch. At the money being asked, you could still shop around even for a 16710?

[springer]

That's a lot of cash for a ratty-dialed fat lady with matching ratty hands.

The dealer is misinformed regarding the market for these watches, especially in this condition.

[NickD1975]

The hands can be stabilised - I'll be doing so with my early 16710, and the dial looks very similar to a water damaged one I had on a 16570. Neither are reasons not to get the watch, IF the price reflected condition. It would need to be several thousand £ cheaper if I was to consider it personally. For the money they are asking I'd want a watch with no issues at all.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by springer

that's a lot of cash for a ratty-dialed fat lady with matching ratty hands.

The dealer is misinformed regarding the market for these watches, especially in this condition.

+1

[Pocosso]

Originally Posted by OrangeSport

QUOTE=opawlows;11785029]Love this version of the 16760! No "Date" dial was only used for the first run of these if I am not mistaken. Had one and sold it about 15 years ago to help purchase my first home. If you do not decide to move on this one, PM me as I am in the market again for another!

What am I missing? It has a date[/QUOTE]

"No Date" refers to the line below Rolex, it only says "Oyster Perpetual" and not "Oyster Perpetual Date".

This MK-1 Dial looks great and from what I can see it perfectly match the Hands Set.

I think the condition is great and I would suggest you not to leave it, your hands filled on a great piece.

Go for it.

[Pilot1985]

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=537129

You can have a look on this thread on the dial variants for the 16760 and It's hard to believe this NO DATE dial ended up on a R serial. Besides the condition of the dial and hands are not appealing to me at least. And for that price even It would be a hard pass for me.

If the premium is for the full set then im sure you can find something much nicer for that price.

And the insert is naturally faded or artificially? I would incline for the second...

[brigadoonb]

Originally Posted by triman_82

Yeah, I was/am very worried about the hands. 1) the lum cream-ness doesn't match. 2) The ones on the hands are starting to crack. The advice I keep hearing is to buy the seller, not the watch and this is one of, if not the MOST REPUTABLE professional dealer here in Hong Kong with over 20 years of experience in the market. If you're into watches here in HK, you would know him.

I realise I'm paying a very big premium for this watch. My reason are
1) the faded bezel. I'm under the impression that a faded bezel is worth MORE than a pristine black and red one. That's the main reason I'm attracted to this watch, because of the "grey" red combination
2) the huge reputation of the seller. Since this is my first watch ever, I figured that I'd pay a little more for the peace of mind
3) This 1988 watch is a full set with paper. Same reason as #2, want to be safer since it's my first watch
4) Lume is creamy which I like, but I do realise the lume plots on the hands is in pretty bad condition. &lt;-- what can I do to "fix" this and/or slow down the chance it deteriorating?

Are these a good enough reasons to pay the extra premium?

Honestly if it was my money, I would look for a cleaner version with a non-faded insert…..which would save you some money off this price. Faded inserts can still be sourced by themselves. Good luck and let us know how things work out.


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