Incoming 16800 with heavy pumpking ¿?patina¿?

[Rolessor82]

Hi,

I just got this 16800 birth year. I love the colors but would like to get opinions on the patina. Is it age or man-made?

Thank you all,

Pics attached.

[1675-David]

That could depend on WHO you bought it from!

[PVR]

Lume looks original and UV photo also looks correct. Very nice watch.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

That could depend on WHO you bought it from!

My sentiments too.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by PVR

Lume looks original and UV photo also looks correct. Very nice watch.

Hmmm .... I would expect original tritium to show white under UV, like this 5512 Sub from about 1973.

[Rolessor82]

Thank you! Wow that is one amazing piece!!

[Rolessor82]

I bought it from Scott, at HQmilton

[karleone]

I don’t like the pumpkin patina and they never felt very natural to my eyes… I remember a few years ago a certain dealer from Asia who has tons of them. All the same patina…

[btinl]

Originally Posted by Rolessor82

Hi,

I just got this 16800 birth year. I love the colors but would like to get opinions on the patina. Is it age or man-made?

Thank you all,

Pics attached.

I have seen other pumpkin patina with that same appearance under UV light.

[Rolessor82]

Thank you all.
I have seen 70s subs and gmts that glow whiteish as Aaron has posted, however in the 80s Rolex started experimenting with dials and paints mixtures and I've seen many 16800 with heavy patina, particularly this reference. This is my first one, hence my query.

[karleone]

Congrats anyway!!

[Rolessor82]

Originally Posted by karleone

Congrats anyway!!

Thank you.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by karleone

I don’t like the pumpkin patina and they never felt very natural to my eyes… I remember a few years ago a certain dealer from Asia who has tons of them. All the same patina…

I'm with you. Once upon a time, when I was just getting into these watches, I was wooed by that vibrant pumpkin patina from NBTimes...and then I wised-up, and they all became weirdly suspicious-looking. And to make matters worse, a certain craftsman from the same city (who is famous for his bracelet repairs) also re-lumes vintage dials...in a very familiar shade.

[PVR]

So, I am going to let you guys in on one of my trade secrets..

Dealers who have handled lots of vintage watches and have seen all sorts of lume can probably chime in. I have found that dials with heavy patina and also tropical dial watches which have been exposed to high moisture and humidity do not exhibit the same UV reaction as dials with mild or light patina.

I have often wondered why and clearly it has something to do with moisture, which is what turns dials tropical and perhaps some sort of "tritium mold". yeah, I just coined that phrase so give me credit in 10 years when it becomes a thing :)

When you look at heavy patina watches under UV you need to look for traces of that yellow glow around the plots and within the plots. They will not react like light plots do. Maybe I will take some pics and upload them to give examples, but when you see any sort of tritium reaction you know the lume is good.

If this heavy pumpkin patina was yellow under UV I would be concerned but, the way it does react in the UV photos proves to me its genuine tritium, I am certain this is not a relume. The texture of the lume, the uniformity of the application and the UV images confirms it to me.

As far as pumpkin lume goes, I have seen some crazy original pumpkin and YES, I have also seen that HK seller with pumpkin lume on 100 out of 100 watches that is certainly NOT original. This is without question genuine lume. You can even see the stardust sparkle in the hands and plots which is the binder that they used with the tritium. I'm going to post some pics, stay tuned..

[L.K Johnson]

Looks like someone is set for Halloween! Congrats!

[PVR]

This is a dial that I saw at a dealers booth last week. Untouched dial but look at the lume. Its 100% genuine.

[PVR]

Ok, so I just took these pics. One is a red sub dial, the other is a white sub dial. Under microscope, you can see the lume is genuine waffle texture and properly applied. Under UV you will see the white sub lume is bright yellow and the heavy patina red sub lume has that halo of glow. Both not relumed but you can clearly see the difference under UV of a light patina plot and a heavy patina plot. Hope this helps..

[Dr.Smellody]

I really like the look. Congratulations.

[Kingface66]

Hang on, can’t original lume be altered/enhanced with a dark-ish yellow stain? You wouldn’t reluming it, but rather just darkening it, which I imagine would preserve the essence of the original composition.

[Rolessor82]

Originally Posted by PVR

So, I am going to let you guys in on one of my trade secrets..

Dealers who have handled lots of vintage watches and have seen all sorts of lume can probably chime in. I have found that dials with heavy patina and also tropical dial watches which have been exposed to high moisture and humidity do not exhibit the same UV reaction as dials with mild or light patina.

I have often wondered why and clearly it has something to do with moisture, which is what turns dials tropical and perhaps some sort of "tritium mold". yeah, I just coined that phrase so give me credit in 10 years when it becomes a thing :)

When you look at heavy patina watches under UV you need to look for traces of that yellow glow around the plots and within the plots. They will not react like light plots do. Maybe I will take some pics and upload them to give examples, but when you see any sort of tritium reaction you know the lume is good.

If this heavy pumpkin patina was yellow under UV I would be concerned but, the way it does react in the UV photos proves to me its genuine tritium, I am certain this is not a relume. The texture of the lume, the uniformity of the application and the UV images confirms it to me.

As far as pumpkin lume goes, I have seen some crazy original pumpkin and YES, I have also seen that HK seller with pumpkin lume on 100 out of 100 watches that is certainly NOT original. This is without question genuine lume. You can even see the stardust sparkle in the hands and plots which is the binder that they used with the tritium. I'm going to post some pics, stay tuned..

Thank you. You have seen that. Yeah the more "dark" or "moldy" the less bright the reaction. But you can still find that stardust microscopic sparkle on the lume. However I thought that ALL tritium should behave the same, makes sense. I just never heard it from someone else.

[Rolessor82]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Hang on, can’t original lume be altered/enhanced with a dark-ish yellow stain? You wouldn’t reluming it, but rather just darkening it, which I imagine would preserve the essence of the original composition.

Yeah, that's still possible

[Alcan]

Either way its a great looking watch and it even looks like the bezel pip matches.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Hang on, can’t original lume be altered/enhanced with a dark-ish yellow stain? You wouldn’t reluming it, but rather just darkening it, which I imagine would preserve the essence of the original composition.

Yes it can. As you mentioned earlier, we have seen examples of that in the past.

As far as Rolessor82's 16800 goes, it's hard for me to judge the dial lume based on the pics but that hands appear to have been relumed at some point.

[PVR]

Got to disagree with Springer on this one. The hands are clearly tritium and have the sparkle AND yellow glow consistent with tritium. If you look closely at the UV pics from OP you can see it.

I looked on HQ, that case is also unpolished so, the whole watch appears to be very special overall. BTW, there are several other examples on the HQ website of 16800's with similar patina and hundreds of other models too.

Watch is good. Too many people looking to find fault with perfect watches. This one is good.

[springer]

For comparison, here is a circa 1985 GMT 16750 where the hands became pretty "ratty" like those found on many vintage watches with heavy patina. The hands were subsequently repaired but the dial patina remains original.

[Dr.Smellody]

Originally Posted by springer

Here is a circa 1985 GMT 16750 where the hands became pretty "ratty" like those found on many vintage watches with heavy patina. The hands were subsequently repaired but the dial patina remains original.

Looks fantastic!!!

[springer]

Originally Posted by PVR

Got to disagree with Springer on this one. The hands are clearly tritium and have the sparkle AND yellow glow consistent with tritium. If you look closely at the UV pics from OP you can see it.

I looked on HQ, that case is also unpolished so, the whole watch appears to be very special overall. BTW, there are several other examples on the HQ website of 16800's with similar patina and hundreds of other models too.

Watch is good. Too many people looking to find fault with perfect watches. This one is good.

I don't know about "people looking to find fault with perfect watches", but I believe he asked for opinions.

The hands are way too grainy and the color is different like in sand - not uniform. It appears some type of mixture was added to the lume to darken it up but the color is not uniform, not smooth. Sorry, but for me they are relumed and appear relumed under the blue light.

But, if the OP likes it, that's all that matters for me.

[MrChamfers]

I think if it's from the 80's there should be some activity left in the tritium, at least while under the uv.