The new panerai p.9010 – perpetual downgrading

[tedo]

In late 2020, Panerai customers started noticing that their latest P.9010-powered watches no longer had “hacking seconds” . . .

https://perezcope.com/2022/03/27/the...l-downgrading/

[Cru Jones]

Long discussed in other threads.

[roger.bolton]

Great article, first time I found it.

As I have said before, love the Panerai shapes and despise the company.

The rational decision would be to buy elsewhere, then again, nothing is rationale about spending 10k on a watch!

[Stranger]

It's a great article.

[roger.bolton]

It also crystalizes that this was about cost saving. Why else remove the coloring from the text. Its a sad situation. The movement looks cheap.

[Bugsy]

very sad, I had a 233, loved the hacking feature. I must admit I thoroughly enjoyed Panerai when I first started collecting, age and taste gradually drew me away. the brand now seems to have drawn alot of criticism on heritage, quality and intergrity.

[walds11]

Good article. This has been discussed ad nauseam on here.

[watchmavan]

As usual this author presents some compelling evidence but also mixes it with a little hearsay as well. I wish he would stock to the facts supported by evidence. Currently 80-90% is great to see and read but the reader is always left to determine what parts appear not to be supported by evidence. Lumping the P900 in starting he's seen somewhere Onan unnamed German forum is not evidence. I have a 2021 P900 and the calibre does in fact have hacking seconds.


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[pereztroika]

Originally Posted by watchmavan

I have a 2021 P900 and the calibre does in fact have hacking seconds.

Lucky you, probably got one with the previous version of the movement:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=845337

Originally Posted by pereztroika

No hacking here (1068 Blue Notte):

https://youtu.be/rkEnNRAhTxA?t=150

Originally Posted by azcii

Edit: no hacking here at 1:20 either:

https://youtu.be/VRTZrWhvsAo

Cheers
Jose

[kyledds]

Great article.

[mailman]

I have a 1305 with a 9010 that was bought new in March 2020. It hacks.

[roger.bolton]

Maybe the P9010 should be called the P9010BB by us, as Panerai seem to think its the same.

Guess what BB stands for? Brooklyn Bridge

[shammad10]

I have a December 2020 PAM01314- it has both hacking seconds and jumping hours.
My PAM01223 has neither.

When did they stop hacking the seconds/jumping hours?

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by shammad10

I have a December 2020 PAM01314- it has both hacking seconds and jumping hours.
My PAM01223 has neither.

When did they stop hacking the seconds/jumping hours?

I was wondering the same. Terrible on PANERAI, especially with what they’re charging for these models.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by mailman

I have a 1305 with a 9010 that was bought new in March 2020. It hacks.

Probably left over stock. My 1305 bought in spring of 2021 doesn't hack. Now when I was at my local Panerai dealer in Dallas around xmas time, they had one and it hacked. I was very disappointed to miss out on a hacking model. It's all a pita as well because supposedly rumor has it they'll remove the hacking feature upon service and if I had one that hacked I'd be severely irritated and upset, which is why I haven't bothered with buying a preowned one that hacks.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Probably left over stock. My 1305 bought in spring of 2021 doesn't hack. Now when I was at my local Panerai dealer in Dallas around xmas time, they had one and it hacked. I was very disappointed to miss out on a hacking model. It's all a pita as well because supposedly rumor has it they'll remove the hacking feature upon service and if I had one that hacked I'd be severely irritated and upset, which is why I haven't bothered with buying a preowned one that hacks.

What!! Surely they wouldn’t do that. That’d be ridiculous.

[watchmavan]

Hard to know what's really happening here. I have a P900 from March 2022. It has hacking. I wouldn't accept the old calibre argument when there appears to be no consistency here with watch model age and hacking / non hacking capabilities.

Older ones do, then they don't then they do again? I went into Kennedy Jewelers and tested the 4 watch models they had in the window with the P900 calibre. All hacked. The best answer would be for Richemont to provide an answer as their movement arm, Val Fleurier make all the Panerai "in-house" calibres. That's not likely to happen though. While Perezcope provides some evidence, he makes leaps from a limited set of data to statements that the data does not fully support.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by watchmavan

Hard to know what's really happening here. I have a P900 from March 2022. It has hacking. I wouldn't accept the old calibre argument when there appears to be no consistency here with watch model age and hacking / non hacking capabilities.

Older ones do, then they don't then they do again? I went into Kennedy Jewelers and tested the 4 watch models they had in the window with the P900 calibre. All hacked. The best answer would be for Richemont to provide an answer as their movement arm, Val Fleurier make all the Panerai "in-house" calibres. That's not likely to happen though. While Perezcope provides some evidence, he makes leaps from a limited set of data to statements that the data does not fully support.

My understanding is this was specific to the P9010 movement, however you’re talking about the P900. Aren’t these different movements?

[Megalobyte]

Originally Posted by Al1969

I was wondering the same. Terrible on PANERAI, especially with what they’re charging for these models.

Hacking or lack thereof isn’t necessarily an indication of inferior quality, one only needs to look at Patek and VC, many of their current movements don’t hack.

[roger.bolton]

I think the movement downgrade is p9010 specific.

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

My understanding is this was specific to the P9010 movement, however you’re talking about the P900. Aren’t these different movements?

The piece that appeared on Perezcope.com was labeled as the P9010 but also made similar claims regarding the P900. There have also been random pieces and podcasts claiming the same of the P900. As they owner of a PAM00904 I have followed with interest.

The main spreader of the story which appears to have quite some merit was a guest on Rico's Watches Podcast recently. He ma does the claim to both calibres there. He produces some excellent evidence but also makes poorly evidenced leaps as well.


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[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

My understanding is this was specific to the P9010 movement, however you’re talking about the P900. Aren’t these different movements?

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

My understanding is this was specific to the P9010 movement, however you’re talking about the P900. Aren’t these different movements?

The piece that appeared on Perezcope.com was labeled as the P9010 but also made similar claims regarding the P900. There have also been random pieces and podcasts claiming the same of the P900. As they owner of a PAM00904 I have followed with interest.

The main spreader of the story which appears to have quite some merit was a guest on Rico's Watches Podcast recently. He ma does the claim to both calibres there. He produces some excellent evidence but also makes poorly evidenced leaps as well.


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[pereztroika]

It is indeed weird that some P.900 hack and others don't. I've been contacted by a number of people whose movements do not hack. If we look at the P.900e installed in the eLAB-ID (PAM01225) we can see there is no hacking lever next to the balance wheel.



Keep in mind, this is the movement that is installed in a 60k watch.

For comparison, this is where the lever would be located:




Cheers
Jose

[iceshark]

Great article

[roger.bolton]

Here we go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhG6lUayfkM

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by pereztroika

It is indeed weird that some P.900 hack and others don't. I've been contacted by a number of people whose movements do not hack. If we look at the P.900e installed in the eLAB-ID (PAM01225) we can see there is no hacking lever next to the balance wheel.



Keep in mind, this is the movement that is installed in a 60k watch.

For comparison, this is where the lever would be located:




Cheers
Jose

Wondering if you have looked at this from a reference stand rather than a calibre stand? It may explain why some do and some don't and might if fact be by design? Currently you're starting that some so and some don't. This is also supported by your limited set of first hand data so far.

Good data is also NEVER from a reliable is source. Good data is self collected an bs never relies on being spoken about.


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[Juan Luis]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Hacking or lack thereof isn’t necessarily an indication of inferior quality, one only needs to look at Patek and VC, many of their current movements don’t hack.

This.
My VC Overseas does not hack. And my 5196R Patek Clatrava does not either. I read somewhere the abrupt stopping is hard on the movement. That being said, I also enjoy my hacking seconds watches when atomic time OCD kicks in!
My Speedy does not hack either, BTW.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Hacking or lack thereof isn’t necessarily an indication of inferior quality, one only needs to look at Patek and VC, many of their current movements don’t hack.

This
Does the P.9010 movement have a quick set date function?
If it does, its better than what's in the AP 15202

[roger.bolton]

Its not that it does not hack, it is:

That it *did* hack
They didn't tell anyone
They did it to save money along with other downgrades

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by roger.bolton

Its not that it does not hack, it is:

That it *did* hack
They didn't tell anyone
They did it to save money along with other downgrades

That may be true. But it also may not be. The evidence does not support that all calibres now don't hack. Using some evidence and making the jump to your conclusion is a very poor use of data. Even in this thread there are questions that have been asked and not answered. I'm not defending Panerai as this may all be true, but it's not true based on the limited data and some assumptions that have been made.


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