Retail Hierarchy vs. Intrinsic Value?

[charger_vital]

Found this interesting chart comparing the retail price of our favorite integrated sports pieces on Monochrome. Link to the full article here.

As it turns out, I think this is chart shows a fairly accurate picture of the comparative intrinsic values of the watches as well - perhaps not surprisingly it follows pretty closely in line with the actual retail price.

By looking at the chart, I'm curious what you think are: (1) the best value ("bang per buck" meal deal hunger busters), (2) most overrated for its price point, and (3) Biggest snub for not making the list (note: candidates must be integrated bracelet sport watches so the Lange "Od" doesn't count).

Mine:
(1) Best value - Tie: Czapek and Laurent Ferrier Sport
(2) Overrated - GP Laureato
(3) Snub - Parmagiani Tonda

[fmc000]

(1) Best value - Chopard Alpine Eagle
(2) Overrated - 5711 (by over a thousand miles)
(3) Snub - Breguet 5517

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by fmc000

(1) Best value - Chopard Alpine Eagle
(2) Overrated - 5711 (by over a thousand miles)
(3) Snub - Breguet 5517

The 5517 didn't get snubbed... it is on the chart!

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

The 5517 didn't get snubbed... it is on the chart!

You're right, I'm not an English native speaker and completely misunderstood that part of the post, sorry.

(3) Snub - Hublot BB Integral

[GB-man]

Value tissot
Overrated 5711
Snub my pf micro rotor lol

[HMHM]

I would say

Best Value: Tissot PRX
Overrated: Previously I would have said the 15202, but with the new movement I now would lean towards the 5711 as the most overrated piece.
Snub: Probably the Hublot Big Bangs with integrated bracelet. I do think Hublot can do so much better for its price point. There are some great pieces like the Murakami but its just not exactly PP, AP or VC level of finishing.

[ap1]

PF not on as not truly integrated like oddy?

Where is my streamliner!

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ap1

PF not on as not truly integrated like oddy?

Where is my streamliner!

I also thought that the PF was just an outcropped bracelet like the ALS Od (i.e. not really integrated), but after watching the manufacturing process I think you might be able to classify it as integrated. The first link (or what looks like the first link) looks like it is actually a part of the bracelet and not removable despite having the appearance that it is... See HERE at 17:17minutes... number 11 on the diagram looks like its part of the case. Perhaps somebody with one can opine?

In any case, Moser is a good call... I am changing my "snub" option.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

I also thought that the PF was just an outcropped bracelet like the ALS Od (i.e. not really integrated), but after watching the manufacturing process I think you might be able to classify it as integrated. The first link (or what looks like the first link) looks like it is actually a part of the bracelet and not removable despite having the appearance that it is... See HERE at 17:17minutes... number 11 on the diagram looks like its part of the case. Perhaps somebody with one can opine?

In any case, Moser is a good call... I am changing my "snub" option.

I drew a green line to delineate what is removable. That center link is held to the case by a spring bar ala Rolex on the underside of the case and by screws on the bracelet end.

Honestly I never really thought about what the criteria was for “integrated bracelet watch” and just consider this category luxury sports watches in steel. Given the overall design motif though it’s impossible to argue the bracelet isn’t designed specifically in harmony with the case design.

I once again will highly recommend this watch to anyone looking for an ultra thin steel sports watch. It’s charms have grown on me considerably.

[flyguy33]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I drew a green line to delineate what is removable. That center link is held to the case by a spring bar ala Rolex on the underside of the case and by screws on the bracelet end.

Honestly I never really thought about what the criteria was for “integrated bracelet watch” and just consider this category luxury sports watches in steel. Given the overall design motif though it’s impossible to argue the bracelet isn’t designed specifically in harmony with the case design.

I once again will highly recommend this watch to anyone looking for an ultra thin steel sports watch. It’s charms have grown on me considerably.

I will concur in all aspects of this response. I get quite confused at some definitions of "integrated" vs not. To me it is one of those you know it when you see it kind of things.

[loftycomfort]

Value: Tissot PRX
Overrated: 5711
Snub: Moser Streamliner

[Russell996]

Value: Vacheron Overseas
Overrated: AP Royal Oak
Snub: Moser Streamliner

Personal Favourites: PP 5711/LF Sport Auto

[Nathan_]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Value: Vacheron Overseas
Overrated: AP Royal Oak
Snub: Moser Streamliner

Agree with this, as VC includes 3 straps & depoylant. But also feel the Tissot offers excellent value based on its MSRP.

Although I will swap out the RO for the GP in the overrated category.

Value: Vacheron Overseas & Tissot PRX
Overrated: GP
Snub: Moser Streamliner

[pdnb]

The chart is a nice compilation of the available pieces…. But the watches are listed in msrp order so there is no editorial content, unless to the OP’s point is if a watch was left off.

Is the question to rank the overrated piece by its msrp or its market price?


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[Russell996]

Originally Posted by pdnb

Is the question to rank the overrated piece by its msrp or its market price?

I'm assuming MSRP.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by pdnb

The chart is a nice compilation of the available pieces…. But the watches are listed in msrp order so there is no editorial content, unless to the OP’s point is if a watch was left off.

Is the question to rank the overrated piece by its msrp or its market price?


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I think we might all agree that the current market price for a 5711 at $200k is a bit excessive... and we would all also agree that the $30k-ish MSRP of a 5711 relative to its current $200k-ish market price is an incredible bargain, so I'm not asking those questions.

I was asking only in terms of MSRP vs intrinsic value. Does the suggested MSRP on that chart reflect the relative quality of a watch compared to the other watches on the chart? And if not, what would you change (i.e. what's overrated, whats underrated, and whats missing)?

[JParm]

Originally Posted by pdnb

The chart is a nice compilation of the available pieces…. But the watches are listed in msrp order so there is no editorial content, unless to the OP’s point is if a watch was left off.

That was my interpretation as well - the chart tells us nothing but cost, low to high.

In terms of bang for your buck, I'm a bit biased as seen below. Otherwise, everything selling for above MSRP is overrated for me.

[Ichiran]

Surely the 5711 has the best value since the market price is multiple times that of MSRP.

Otherwise "intrinsic value" and "overrated" vis-a-vis MSRP are impossible to ascertain unless we have accurate production data from all these manufacturers. We don't know how much time is spent by each manufacturer on their respective movement and cash/dial/bracelet, and the cost of R&D, raw material and payroll. For those listed ones like Richemont and LVMH, we may know their margins at corporate level but not at the model line level.

[Nachum]

Value: Octo
Overrated: 5711
Snub: Moser Streamliner

[gliazzurri]

Moser was the total snub
Agreed

[flyboyyy]

I don't know about all of them, but having owned some of them and now have a PRX (gift), I have to admit I'd put the PRX above the other three next to it above the Zenith and below the Chopard. I owned the Zenith, it was disappointing and I ended up getting rid of it.

That "affordable" PRX is a really surprisingly good value (from an accuracy, finish, and wearability standpoint).

The top 5 are something I've not owned, so I can't place a first person objective opinion on those, but the Tissot is something I probably never would have bought myself, but have really fallen in love with it.

[GB-man]

One beauty shot since I only displayed the ugly indoor lighting bracelet shot.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by GB-man

One beauty shot since I only displayed the ugly indoor lighting bracelet shot.

She’s a beauty. To me I quickly see a lug there (high polish). So I don’t think this one fits the fully integrated category. No matter, I’ve gone from zero Pfs to committing to two!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by ap1

She’s a beauty. To me I quickly see a lug there (high polish). So I don’t think this one fits the fully integrated category. No matter, I’ve gone from zero Pfs to committing to two!

Oooh spill the beans. What did we go for?

The “lug” technically includes polished and brushed sections.

[flyguy33]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Oooh spill the beans. What did we go for?

The “lug” technically includes polished and brushed sections.

One of my favorite aspects of this watch is how they visually frame the case with the polish/brushed aspects of the bracelet. You have to study it a bit to figure out where the actual link separations/lugs are.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by flyguy33

One of my favorite aspects of this watch is how they visually frame the case with the polish/brushed aspects of the bracelet. You have to study it a bit to figure out where the actual link separations/lugs are.

Definitely intentional and looks great in various lighting the way the polished exterior of the links comes up onto the lugs and meets the platinum bezel

[MILGAUSS88]

Snub : Lange Odysseus, honorable mention PF Tonda, Moser Streamliner

[pdnb]

Do any of your votes change… if the watch had no date?


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[ILoveFerrari]

Monochrome dropped a huge ball not mentioning Lange Odysseus. I personally think Lange OD is just so nice. This is the Titanium. Even next to my Vacheron Traditionalle Open face, it holds its own. The detailed finish and especially the link is very impressive at its price point of 51k. 222 is no where near.
Attachment 1288727

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ilovegt

Monochrome dropped a huge ball not mentioning Lange Odysseus. I personally think Lange OD is just so nice. This is the Titanium. Even next to my Vacheron Traditionalle Open face, it holds its own. The detailed finish and especially the link is very impressive at its price point of 51k. 222 is no where near.

Dude, your VC looks incredible. What a beautiful watch! I think you are being way too generous in your comparison with the Lange...