How to obtain excellent timekeeping over a period of several months.

[CharlesN]

I have, again today, kept logging the timekeeping of my Rolex Explorer II model 226570.

I will continue to do this for the foreseeable future as well.

My watch has a 3285 caliber as it’s beating heart.

I have been taking readings with an application on my iPhone called WatchTracker. On this watch i have now been doing it for 144.9 days.

I take the readings first thing in the morning and last thing at night before I retire.

That’s one application I highly recommend to all watch fans especially if you want to know how well (Or badly) you watch is at timekeeping.

I also have a TimeGrapher.

The TimeGrapher has allowed me to see and record very quickly and simply how my watch performs in different positions this has enabled me to choose my watch overnight resting position.

I use the recommended 5 positions when measuring my watch (CH, CB, 9H, 6H, 3H).

Personally I measure is a slightly different order (CH, 6H, 9H, 3H, CB) as i find this allows me to change the watch positions with the least amount of movement.

With the TimeGrapher information I am in a position to decide how want to lay my watch at night.

I do not take TimeGrapher readings on my watch daily … I do then once in a week or less often even.

I find most days my watch looses a little time on my wrist and I manage to compensate for the loss in time by positioning my watch overnight in a position that it will gain time.

From the chart and graph below you can see that at this mornings reading my Rolex Explorer II was 0.1 seconds fast.

I got up at 7am this morning, If I had stayed in bed an hour or two more my watch would have had zero error. I got up as i had some urgent errands to perform.

I can already sense that some of you are rolling your eyes or similar to say who cares about a small error on a watch as the error shown is such a tiny one compared to the 86,400 seconds in one 24 hour period.

The simple answer is …. I do !

I enjoy my watches and i enjoy the effort, even though it is a minimal effort, in getting my chosen watch of the period to run not just within COSC or Rolex specifications but a lot better than those. I do strive for perfection.

There is, of course, another benefit of monitoring my watch in the way I do.. If there is any fault or problem with my watch it will show up quite quickly as the timekeeping would show itself declining in both precision and accuracy.

For those of you who say that your watch runs “Dead On”, or words to that effect, I would have to take exception to your comment.

My watch, although it appears to run “Dead On” does not … if it was just on my wrist continually it would loose time. Considered compensation is the key to gaining close to perfect timekeeping over a period of time.

This method of adjusting the timekeeping is often referred to as ‘Self-Regulation”. The advantage is you do not need to be a watchmaker, have any training in how a watch runs or have any technical expertise. You simply have to have a little patience.

You do not have to wear a watch to know if it is keeping good time.
you only have to wear the watch if you want to know if it keeps good time whilst being used daily.

If a negative error builds up within my watch’s timekeeping then I would be late for everything and that’s something I am totally against.

Tardiness is not acceptable.

[EEpro]

I love watch tracker. I've got a damn good Pepsi and VC I'd say.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I love watch tracker. I've got a damn good Pepsi and VC I'd say.

Great collection


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[amanbra]

Yeah don’t know why this topic can be so decisive in a watch forum.

I too value timekeeping qualities of my watches it’s part of the joys of this hobby for me.

I too track my daily watches checking time every morning at around 7am when I wake up and slap on a watch. I also use watch tracker.

Because I store my watches in a watch box in a safe they are always dial up overnight, i generally don’t self regulate as a result.

Two my of my watches are actually +12 on my wrist but part of the charm for me. They are old school movements.

They do tell me when I need to get more geeky with the measurements see below.




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[Ichiran]

I'm not obsessed with fraction of a second (I can understand why some watch enthusiasts are), but I just want to comment OP has a wonderful watch collection.

[Andad]

.

[Malum]

Wow

[askdanny]

Originally Posted by Andad

.

?

[saxo3]

Charles, why you don't tell us about temperature and air pressure? You don't measure them? Where are your first nice graphs? You had one year to learn and prepare!

[Andad]

Originally Posted by askdanny

?

You have a question Danny?

[Chester01]

Ummm, i mean my sub is like +2-3 per day and I am never late due to any "timing" errors. Its close enough.

[Hemdog]

This is a bit weird

[ExplorerI]

Nice collection. I track a new watch for a few days or when it comes back from service. As long as they’re within a couple seconds per day that’s fine. I tend to change time zones or let them wind down when I wear a different watch frequently enough that they get set often enough to never notice any significant error.

[Cauhauna]

Charles, great post

What can you tell us about the testing positions?

[Guybrush]

I’m for unabashed horological nerdiness. Feel like some people are here to regard watches as fashion accessories, or investments; some enjoy queries about whether it’s safe to wear their watches; some enjoy “should I this or should I that?” posts; some want to gripe about ADs, etc etc. But many of us are here because we’re fascinated by watches as engineering marvels, and wonky analytics like this are fun.

I’m in the process of sorting out how to self-regulate my watch. Not an urgent issue; just a point of interest.

These are very expensive watches—nothing wrong with considering them with respect to hyper accurate timekeeping. No different than appreciating a sports car for its acceleration.

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by Guybrush

I’m for unabashed horological nerdiness. Feel like some people are here to regard watches as fashion accessories, or investments; some enjoy queries about whether it’s safe to wear their watches; some enjoy “should I this or should I that?” posts; some want to gripe about ADs, etc etc. But many of us are here because we’re fascinated by watches as engineering marvels, and wonky analytics like this are fun.

I’m in the process of sorting out how to self-regulate my watch. Not an urgent issue; just a point of interest.

These are very expensive watches—nothing wrong with considering them with respect to hyper accurate timekeeping. No different than appreciating a sports car for its acceleration.

Best way is to buy an inexpensive timegrapher like the Weishi 1900. You will instantly know the performance of your watch in five relevant positions. Otherwise you can keep track of your watch over a weeks time in a specific resting position each night, noting the accuracy. After a few weeks of testing each position, you will be able to self regulate.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Cauhauna

What can you tell us about the testing positions?

Hi Cau,

I am a little unsure exactly what you are asking but I will try and give you the basics of what i think you want to know..

Generally a Rolex watch will run a little faster with the dial UP or Dial Down (Thats called Horizontal).
In the other 3 positions, 9up, 6Up and 3Up (Usually called Vertical) a watch usually runs a little slowly.

Thats NOT a hard and fast rule as a watch is a marvel of engineering and occasionally can be regulated poorly so those general rules dont apply, but, thats rare thankfully.

These 5 positions are the positions many people use to keep their watch running with really good timekeeping as watches when worn all day can either gain or loose a little.

This little amount of overnight compensation often keeps a watch in very good timekeeping order.

Another help for you woud be an app on your phone to assist you with logging the error of your watch so you know how to rest it at night. WatchTracker is available for an iPhone. I highly recommend it.

You may want to visit your AD and his watchmaker to get a printout of how your watch is behaving in the 5 positions .... Most AD's will be able to arrange the test (Performed on a timegrapher) for you which takes less than 15 mins in total. With that information you will already have a good idea of how much a watch will gain or loose in what position overnight.

I hope I have been clear with this answer, but, If not please just ask for more information.

[amh]

Originally Posted by Hemdog

This is a bit weird

Not at all.

Kind of like:
- Adding an aftermarket pipe to your motorcycle
- Adding a turbo to your car
- Overclocking your PC
- Aluminum rims for your truck

If it helps enjoy the hobby then it's good.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by amh

Not at all.

- Adding an aftermarket pipe to your motorcycle
- Adding a turbo to your car
- Overclocking your PC
- Aluminum rims for your truck

Oh dear !!! What have I missed out on from that list ? ...

Oh All 4 items.

But, don't worry,

I still thoroughly enjoy this hobby (Or should I call it an addiction ?)

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amh

Not at all.

Kind of like:
- Adding an aftermarket pipe to your motorcycle
- Adding a turbo to your car
- Overclocking your PC
- Aluminum rims for your truck

If it helps enjoy the hobby then it's good.

One of the best posts recently seen in a timekeeping / accuracy vs. precision thread. Little Joe will never beat the facts, never.

I'll be back ;-)

[jimcameron]

Charles, you need to get out more.

[Boaters]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have, again today, kept logging the timekeeping of my Rolex Explorer II model 226570.

I will continue to do this for the foreseeable future as well.

My watch has a 3285 caliber as it’s beating heart.

I have been taking readings with an application on my iPhone called WatchTracker. On this watch i have now been doing it for 144.9 days.

I take the readings first thing in the morning and last thing at night before I retire.

That’s one application I highly recommend to all watch fans especially if you want to know how well (Or badly) you watch is at timekeeping.

I also have a TimeGrapher.

The TimeGrapher has allowed me to see and record very quickly and simply how my watch performs in different positions this has enabled me to choose my watch overnight resting position.

I use the recommended 5 positions when measuring my watch (CH, CB, 9H, 6H, 3H).

Personally I measure is a slightly different order (CH, 6H, 9H, 3H, CB) as i find this allows me to change the watch positions with the least amount of movement.

With the TimeGrapher information I am in a position to decide how want to lay my watch at night.

I do not take TimeGrapher readings on my watch daily … I do then once in a week or less often even.

I find most days my watch looses a little time on my wrist and I manage to compensate for the loss in time by positioning my watch overnight in a position that it will gain time.

From the chart and graph below you can see that at this mornings reading my Rolex Explorer II was 0.1 seconds fast.

I got up at 7am this morning, If I had stayed in bed an hour or two more my watch would have had zero error. I got up as i had some urgent errands to perform.

I can already sense that some of you are rolling your eyes or similar to say who cares about a small error on a watch as the error shown is such a tiny one compared to the 86,400 seconds in one 24 hour period.

The simple answer is …. I do !

I enjoy my watches and i enjoy the effort, even though it is a minimal effort, in getting my chosen watch of the period to run not just within COSC or Rolex specifications but a lot better than those. I do strive for perfection.

There is, of course, another benefit of monitoring my watch in the way I do.. If there is any fault or problem with my watch it will show up quite quickly as the timekeeping would show itself declining in both precision and accuracy.

For those of you who say that your watch runs “Dead On”, or words to that effect, I would have to take exception to your comment.

My watch, although it appears to run “Dead On” does not … if it was just on my wrist continually it would loose time. Considered compensation is the key to gaining close to perfect timekeeping over a period of time.

This method of adjusting the timekeeping is often referred to as ‘Self-Regulation”. The advantage is you do not need to be a watchmaker, have any training in how a watch runs or have any technical expertise. You simply have to have a little patience.

You do not have to wear a watch to know if it is keeping good time.
you only have to wear the watch if you want to know if it keeps good time whilst being used daily.

If a negative error builds up within my watch’s timekeeping then I would be late for everything and that’s something I am totally against.

Tardiness is not acceptable.

Awesome Post very informative

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Guybrush

I’m for unabashed horological nerdiness. …

But many of us are here because we’re fascinated by watches as engineering marvels, and wonky analytics like this are fun. …

I’m in the process of sorting out how to self-regulate my watch. Not an urgent issue; just a point of interest. …

These are very expensive watches—nothing wrong with considering them with respect to hyper accurate timekeeping. …

The following concrete example may help you and other members to control the timekeeping of a mechanical watch in a rather predictable way.

As described before in this thread some simple effects are important to understand if one wants to self-regulate a mechanical watch in rest position overnight, such as:

(1) The position of the watch
(2) The duration at rest
(3) The lower watch temperature at rest compared to the temperature on the wrist, a topic which has not yet been discussed (with data) on this board.

To study (1) and (2), a smartphone app is useful, which logs, calculates, and displays the results, as shown by the following Watch Tracker screen shot:

Fig. 1


One can see the daily fluctuations and the overnight compensation by chosing a specific rest position. For the studied Sea-Dweller (Ref. 126600), tested during a period of 2 months, the fastes and the slowest rates were +4.4 s/d and -3.3 s/d. This difference of 7.7 s/d was not small.

The watch was only fully wound once at the start of the test, then always worn during daytime, and always put at rest overnight. The position was chosen according to the wish, either to gain or loss time.

After 64 days the 3235 caliber was +0.1 s off. Of course that does NOT mean the movement was running fast by only 0.1/64 = 0.0016 s/d = 1.6 ms/d, which is trivial but worth to mention.

Before the test had started, I determined the position dependent movement rates using my timegrapher and comparing the rates with Watch Tracker, here are the results:

Fig. 2


These data provided an excellent position-dependent prediction how much this specific watch was going to lose or gain at rest overnight. All individual timegrapher measurements were done at rest overnight (watch is colder off wrist).

Timegrapher are a very useful tool also to predict how much a movement is going to lose or gain overnight. Once you know, you chose the necessary position and one can obtain excellent timekeeping over several months and stay even close to an atomic clock reference. But that is a consequence of self-regulation and not due to a mega-accurate caliber.

It is easy, takes no time, and mainly works so well because Rolex calibers are very precise, even when they are not accurate in one or two specific positions (see table above: rates in DU and DD position).

Note: some parts of this post had been recently presented in another thread, but it seems to be of more interest in this specific thread about timekeeping.

[shedlock2000]

I also use the Watch Tracker app. I like to monitor the accuracy of my watch and determine if any of the knocks or bangs it has take it beyond COSC.



I never take my watch off, so the data is constantly a bit spiky due to the various positions my watch is in and due to the various amounts of bangs and knocks it gets during daily use.

I generally start a new timing run every time I adjust the time on the watch, so I don’t often get more than about 60 days of data at a time (the exception is with my 2234.50, which had a jumping hand and allowed me to adjust for flights or daylight savings time without hacking the seconds).

The most accurate watch I’ve had so far, was the Bremont ALT1 BK ZT, which kept time to about +0.5apd for 6 months or so; the least accurate (at least without being banged out of regulation) was my 1675, which was +4.1spd.

I noticed that my 2234.5 was knocked out of regulation through the use of the app, else it would have taken a while for me to have noticed the accumulation of -8spd instead of -3spd.


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I'm not obsessed with fraction of a second (I can understand why some watch enthusiasts are), but I just want to comment OP has a wonderful watch collection.

Agreed on both counts Michael

[dannyboy123]

Maybe try and get out more.

[padi56]

Have to agree.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Agreed on both counts Michael

Originally Posted by dannyboy123

Maybe try and get out more.

Have to agree

[Bustelo]

I'm bored by watch timing and don't care much, maybe because I have to worry about it all of the time. Remember your amp will affect the rate slightly, if your losing slightly on the wrist but gaining (crown up?) At rest that's pretty common.

Love that watch collection and the passion.

[fsprow]

Great idea !!
I feel the same way about my car. I rent a chassis dynamometer each day and follow the horsepower output. If it varies more than 1.3HP, I am seriously concerned. Am going to do the same with my toaster oven, measuring temperature after one minute.