Question on amplitude- 3285 movement

[GST15]

I have been reading about the inner workings of watches, and recently purchased a timegrapher. I have about a dozen higher end watches, including 4 modern and several vintage Rolex, Omega, Cartier and Breitling.

My Rolex GMT Master ll, purchased from my AD in 2020 is running between 0 and -2 Spd, 0 beat error and at the correct 28,800. The problem, (if it is one) is that the amplitude is running between 220 and 245. I have read that the amplitude should fall somewhere between 275 and 310, which is where my other (3) 32XX
movements fall.

Is this something that I should be overly concerned with of should I just monitor its behavior, since I have 3 years remaining on the factory warranty. I am inclined to do this, since it is pretty much running perfectly.

Thanks for the help.

[amanbra]

Hey you’re about to go down a rabbit hole but at least you can keep a close eye on your watch.

Warning there are a fair few here that deny there any issues with the 32xx. They will chime in.

Firstly what amp you mentioned for it to be worth anything you need to state if it’s are full wind or 24 hours etc and what position your watch is in.

Have you set your lift angle to 53?

Officially what you need to test is after 24 hrs does your watch hold 200 amp in all positions.

For me though the first giveaway is a change in time keeping since when the watch was new. Has it changed for you? Do you wear it enough to be able to detect a change?


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[GST15]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey you’re about to go down a rabbit hole but at least you can keep a close eye on your watch.

Warning there are a fair few here that deny there any issues with the 32xx. They will chime in.

Firstly what amp you mentioned for it to be worth anything you need to state if it’s are full wind or 24 hours etc and what position your watch is in.

Have you set your lift angle to 53?

Officially what you need to test is after 24 hrs does your watch hold 200 amp in all positions.

For me though the first giveaway is a change in time keeping since when the watch was new. Has it changed for you? Do you wear it enough to be able to detect a change?


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Thanks for your reply.
The readings are fully wound with the dial in the face up position.

Lift angle is at 53 (I did look that up)

I really don't wear it enough to detect a change, but it has always been +or- a couple seconds, as I have checked on my phone clock over 24 hrs in the past.

I will report back after 24 hrs. to see if it falls below 200.

Thanks again

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by GST15

Thanks for your reply.
The readings are fully wound with the dial in the face up position.

Lift angle is at 53 (I did look that up)

I really don't wear it enough to detect a change, but it has always been +or- a couple seconds, as I have checked on my phone clock over 24 hrs in the past.

I will report back after 24 hrs. to see if it falls below 200.

Thanks again

Okay so fully wound dial up and an amp of 250 is definitely in the low side. When my watches have done that they were at the initial stages of decline and struggle to hold 200 after 24 hours in a vertical position like crown up or down. See how you go but this is the beauty of a timegrapher you can catch it early.


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[GST15]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Okay so fully would dial up and an amp of 250 is definitely in the low side. When my watches have done that they were at the initial stages of decline and struggle to hold 200 after 24 hours in a vertical position like crown up or down. See how you go but this is the beauty of a timegrapher you can catch it early.


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Thanks. I will report back and keep an eye on it.
Has the Rolex fix had any real success to this point?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by GST15

Thanks. I will report back and keep an eye on it.
Has the Rolex fix had any real success to this point?

No one knows because Rolex don’t say anything and the watchmakers in this forum have gone quiet. With many late model watches going bad we do suspect that they don’t have a full handle on it but again we don’t know for sure.

I have a dj that has been in twice now to rsc. This second visit is going well at the moment for me but it hasn’t been a year since coming back so again who knows.

I’m one of the roulette players with this movement. Had/have 9 32xx now.


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[GST15]

Well, after 24 hours, still dial up:
-2 spd (consistent with its performance over the past 2 years with occasional use)
Amplitude is at 220
Beat error is 0.1ms
28,000

Any thoughts Graham? or anyone else.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by GST15

Well, after 24 hours, still dial up:
-2 spd (consistent with its performance over the past 2 years with occasional use)
Amplitude is at 220
Beat error is 0.1ms
28,000

Any thoughts Graham? or anyone else.

What was it crown up or down? Dial up at 220 I’m going to guess crown up or down will be about 190 ish. Technically out of spec if that’s the case.

If it’s fine when you’re wearing keep wearing it. Based on what we know it will get worse over time after you see this. If it has always run like this maybe you have a low amp movement for this one but one that actually keeps time okay.

Check it again after a year or when you notice it’s different to what you’re use to.


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[watchmavan]

I'd be taking it in more than likely. Check over the next two months first perhaps.


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[GST15]

Originally Posted by amanbra

What was it crown up or down? Dial up at 220 I’m going to guess crown up or down will be about 190 ish. Technically out of spec if that’s the case.

If it’s fine when you’re wearing keep wearing it. Based on what we know it will get worse over time after you see this. If it has always run like this maybe you have a low amp movement for this one but one that actually keeps time okay.

Check it again after a year or when you notice it’s different to what you’re use to.


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Graham,
Thank you for your assistance. I will take your advice and monitor it over the next year. I'm sure that I will eventually send it back for service under warranty.

You are kind for taking the time to help me out.
Regards

[GST15]

Originally Posted by watchmavan

I'd be taking it in more than likely. Check over the next two months first perhaps.


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Yes. I'm sure that I will. I appreciate the response

[mikeo1]

GMT II you purchased it in 2020 was it new or used?

[GST15]

Originally Posted by mikeo1

GMT II you purchased it in 2020 was it new or used?

New from the AD

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by GST15

I have been reading about the inner workings of watches, and recently purchased a timegrapher. I have about a dozen higher end watches, including 4 modern and several vintage Rolex, Omega, Cartier and Breitling.

My Rolex GMT Master ll, purchased from my AD in 2020 is running between 0 and -2 Spd, 0 beat error and at the correct 28,800. The problem, (if it is one) is that the amplitude is running between 220 and 245. I have read that the amplitude should fall somewhere between 275 and 310, which is where my other (3) 32XX
movements fall.

Is this something that I should be overly concerned with of should I just monitor its behavior, since I have 3 years remaining on the factory warranty. I am inclined to do this, since it is pretty much running perfectly.

Thanks for the help.

Something seems a bit odd with both sets of numbers you are quoting. Multiple Rolex trained watchmakers have noted that the 32xx produces lower amplitude as compared to previous generations of movements, even when everything is "perfect". The belief is that this goes hand-in-hand with the more efficient escapement and mainspring changes and helps achieve the longer power reserve. I have never seen anyone claim an amplitude of 300 or more on a 32xx. Are you really seeing that on your others?

My two 32xx do 270-275 and 255-260, respectively, dial up, full wind. The "good" one is still over 200 degrees in vertical positions 24 hours after full wind (the only amplitude spec which Rolex has actually put out), whereas the "bad" one falls to the 180s.

If the most you can ever get out of yours is 220-240, full wind, horizontal position, then that would seem to be quite low.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Something seems a bit odd with both sets of numbers you are quoting. Multiple Rolex trained watchmakers have noted that the 32xx produces lower amplitude as compared to previous generations of movements, even when everything is "perfect". The belief is that this goes hand-in-hand with the more efficient escapement and mainspring changes and helps achieve the longer power reserve. I have never seen anyone claim an amplitude of 300 or more on a 32xx. Are you really seeing that on your others?

My two 32xx do 270-275 and 255-260, respectively, dial up, full wind. The "good" one is still over 200 degrees in vertical positions 24 hours after full wind (the only amplitude spec which Rolex has actually put out), whereas the "bad" one falls to the 180s.

If the most you can ever get out of yours is 220-240, full wind, horizontal position, then that would seem to be quite low.

Yeah it is a tad low for full wind dial up. OP really should have tested the vertical positions at the 24 hour mark.

Re the 300, I have an explorer 1 that hit 300 full wind, 270 vert not sure if you every saw my post on that in the mega thread... very rare though... and to be honest it's super erratic... I don't like it...

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yeah it is a tad low for full wind dial up. OP really should have tested the vertical positions at the 24 hour mark.

Re the 300, I have an explorer 1 that hit 300 full wind, 270 vert not sure if you every saw my post on that in the mega thread... very rare though... and to be honest it's super erratic... I don't like it...

I didn't see you post that. I assume you mean a new 124270?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

I didn't see you post that. I assume you mean a new 124270?

Yeah that’s right. I jagged a freak of a movement for that one.


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[GST15]

As a follow up: After testing in various positions, and having the amplitude drop below 200 and erratic timing of -5 to -20 spd, and after speaking to RSC, I took it to my AD to send it in for warranty service. I'll report back when it returns.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by GST15

As a follow up: After testing in various positions, and having the amplitude drop below 200 and erratic timing of -5 to -20 spd, and after speaking to RSC, I took it to my AD to send it in for warranty service. I'll report back when it returns.

It will be interesting to get the "Figures" immediately aftr return to you from the RSC (I hope it has gone there and not to your AD's watchmaker).
and then every month for a year.

How "Stable" with the numbers be after a service ?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by GST15

As a follow up: After testing in various positions, and having the amplitude drop below 200 and erratic timing of -5 to -20 spd, and after speaking to RSC, I took it to my AD to send it in for warranty service. I'll report back when it returns.

Amplitudes below 200 degrees: after full winding or after 24 hours at rest? Can you show us your timegrapher data before you took the watch to the AD?

[GST15]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

It will be interesting to get the "Figures" immediately aftr return to you from the RSC (I hope it has gone there and not to your AD's watchmaker).
and then every month for a year.

How "Stable" with the numbers be after a service ?

No, its at RSC (New York)

[GST15]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Amplitudes below 200 degrees: after full winding or after 24 hours at rest? Can you show us your timegrapher data before you took the watch to the AD?

After full wind. Did not record all the data from each position.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by GST15

After full wind. Did not record all the data from each position.

That’s a real shame.

How will you know what improvements have occurred (if any have) ?

That would tell you if you had a fault and possibly even where the fault laid.

Hopefully next time if there is a next time.

[GST15]

Well I got it back today and it is running perfectly on the Timegrapher. Amplitude at 275, 0 to -1 Spd, 0 beat error. They do not tell the AD what repair was made, they simply state that the movement was serviced without further explanation.

I will keep my fingers crossed that it a permanent fix. Three yrs left on warranty, so I'll be checking.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by GST15

I will keep my fingers crossed that it a permanent fix. Three yrs left on warranty, so I'll be checking.

Please do keep us posted! Glad that things have improved for you.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by GST15

Well I got it back today and it is running perfectly on the Timegrapher. Amplitude at 275, 0 to -1 Spd, 0 beat error.

Numbers from AD or measured with your own timegrapher? 275 in DU, other positions?
I recommend to check verticals (3U, 6 U, 9) an DD too, for reference after RSC repair.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yeah that’s right. I jagged a freak of a movement for that one.


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How many months did that last?!

[GST15]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Numbers from AD or measured with your own timegrapher? 275 in DU, other positions?
I recommend to check verticals (3U, 6 U, 9) an DD too, for reference after RSC repair.

My Timegrapher. All positions between 275-280

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by GST15

My Timegrapher. All positions between 275-280

What protocol did you follow ?

Did you do a full wind and then leave for 15 mins and then measure the standard 5 positions ? Did you leave a short stabilisation period btween each position ?

Can you list the 5 results you got Its far more inteesting to receive a full set of results so the difference between Vertical and Horizontal readings can be seen.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by GST15

My Timegrapher. All positions between 275-280

Great