asking advise on scam(about a purchaser of my watch)

[ddandori]

Hi :) I would wanna ask if any of you heard some similar stories.
I will write by time line.

- I have uploaded my watches for sales in Greek local market place website
- A gentleman from UK contacted me talking on behalf of his father in law
- So the real purchaser is an old gentleman who lives in Swiss and
travel around due to biz in other European country. He can't speak
English but french(geneva)
- He is interested in my 2 watches which are quite rare(but not superare)
and the price I asked is "OK price". Not great deal nor bad deal
- He would wanna pay in cash (which are more than 50K euro)
- However due to some reason, I guess travel time or distance
he would wanna do the deal in 3rd country like Spain, Italy, France.

And my worry point is as below.

- I don't know how he found my article which was in Greek website(car . gr)
- I don't know what difference it makes meeting in Italy or Greece

My feeling so far, the person who I am in contact(who is talking behalf of
his father) seems like a gentleman. I have been talking for 1 week,
he doest say anything promising or seem to be in hurry and make things
sounds too good. He seems very straight and up to point..

But I don't know...since I am doing this for the first time...and also my watch
is not a super rare watch that only I have it in Europe.. you can buy in other
countries too with some extra premium..

what do you guys think? have ever heard something like this before?

[southtexas]

What does your intuition tell you? Mine tells me you might end up in a hotel room or barroom floor with no cash and no watch, and maybe fewer kidneys also.


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[alphadweller]

It doesn't make any sense to ask you to deliver the watches in person in another country that's not his nor yours. That's a weird request. I don't buy the story from this English gentlemen with his Swiss father in law. Sounds fishy.

He could perfectly book a cheap flight to Greece and have a look at the watches in a safe place of your choice with security cameras around, like an airport or a police station.

[GGGMT]

Really, OP?


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[ExplorerI]

Yeah no way I’d do that. Meet me where I am in a secure location to see the watches in person or wire me money and I’ll ship em. Those are the common ways private sales are done.

[Old Geezer]

I would be concerned for numerous reasons. Who walks around with 50k euro ? No way I would travel to another country with my watches to meet someone I don't know to hand over the watches and collect $50K euro. It's just not worth the risk.

[RHJ]

Trying to evaluate a story?

[swaini3]

Noooo

[1665fan]

Scam lol

[Benzsiam]

Too risky, run fast!

[pandajoe]

Sounds off to me. I’d pass on their offer

[slim]

Not worth the risk, I'd stay away.

[chro.nic]

I wouldn't do it if I were you.
However, why would a guy be willing to pay over 50k Euros for two watches listed on a site FILLED with FAKES and REPLICAS (I'm not saying your watches are), and then be willing to travel to get them?????

Something is off, φίλε μου!

.nic

[Fredrik]

You can't even cross a border with that much cash without declaring it even if you actually get paid in real money. Depositing in a bank even more trouble. That much cash is not normal and you might even be required to have a record of all of his details according to the money laundering laws.

Tell him to deposit it in a bank account, transfer it (for free) to your account instead.

[Bstewart]

Absolutely under any circumstances do NOT do this!!!

[milov]

In this situation you don't only need to question the buyer... you need to question yourself. If you are not able to safely navigate potential scams then it is better you lose a little by selling to a reputable reseller rather than losing it all to a scam artist.

[DoDe]

This got to be a troll post. Nobody is that foolish.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by DoDe

This got to be a troll post. Nobody is that foolish.

Yep! We’ve all been punked


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[afnios1]

φυγε μακρυα-avoid at any cost

[shammad10]

There are so many red flags in that!

At this point, you should just walk into your nearest secondary dealer and sell it to them and take 10% less money.
Otherwise you are going to end up with no watch and no money based off your current gullibility.

[ddandori]

Hi, I want to share the final result of this deal.
Despite all your replies that this deal is totally a scam,
I did decide to carry on but with safety measurements
and at the end I met them and deal didn't get closed.
I didn't lose anything but flight ticket to milano and hotel
(also for my wife so total around 500 euro, but I will take
this as a nice weekend getaway)

I took safety measurement, which was that we will only
meet in a safe hotel in open place such as lobby Cafe.
However they booked a meeting room in a quite fine
hotel so I pre checked the area such as emergency exits and
whether some other guys were hiding in other room before the
meeting.

Also my watches were with my wife while she was staying
in lobby front of the hotel guards too. And I alone went
to the meeting room which was in 2nd floor.

So let me share some points and I still don't know 100%
what happend.

- summary :

I did fly to milano and met the purchaser in a
fine hotel's meeting room.

Two big guys were there waiting for me with
cash counting machine and cash of 70K Euro.
All 200 euro bills (so 350 ea)

All the cashes were legit because I brought my
own safescann counterfeit detector and went through
it one by one.

However they were bit hostile and didn't let me finally
to re-verify 10 bills each from 7 stacks(each stacks
have 50 bills of 200 euro)

And started to get upset and emotional about the fact
that I am being too suspicious.

So the deal broke and we all left

Now here I share some details and still bit confuses me
what was the truth of this deal.

- About the middleman, who claims that he is the son in law
who approached me from the beginning about the deal.
He was kind and also sounded real because he was never
in rush or trying to sound promising.

However it turned out some information he told me about
his father in law turned out quite different.

He said his father in law is very old and can't speak English.
Also he does business of real estate and recently he got
cash from selling home. He also said him and his father are
from geneva.

However some things were suspicious.

First the guy(middleman) had french accent in English
which does make sense since he is from geneva. But his
name in whatsapp is totally British name... I mean so
typical British name. No way a geneva person will have
that name. And also from the beginning when he reached me
through a message from the website that I uploaded my watch,
he opened his name from the beginning. Which is quite odd that
you won't do when you a giving inquiry about watch that is
listed in the website. I felt like he was trying to sound safe and
legit person who lives in UK.

After we had several calls and made deal with the watch prices,
he said that his father in law is afraid and old so wanna drive
car to any other country near swiss. He said france, Spain, Italy
was ok so I picked up milano and he agreed.

He also said his father in law, will like to invite me to dinner
have some champagne then after getting to know each other
I could do the deal after I feel safe(I didn't believe anyway)

And also he said that his father in law will stay in a upscale
hotel in milano so I shall meet him there. However the truth
was his father in law didn't stay there but just booked a meeting
room for an hour to meet me)

So what I realized is that he did lie to me about certain facts
and he did try to allure me out to our of Greece where I am living.


- The father in law(the buyer)

So I arrived at the hotel meeting room 20 min earlier and then
did some safety check. When I finally entered the meeting room
2 big buys were inside.

They both didn't look like Swiss background at all. The father
in law(buyer) looked kinda like white middle eastern such as
serbian, albanian, and his
friend looked like Egyptian. They both spoke English bit enough
to communicate but didn't have any French accent. Also
they spoke bit German too. They were communicating to each
other with german, but both English and German were not
that good.

They had big cash counting machine and 7 stacks of
bills which each stack is 10000(200 euro x 50)

I introduced myself but the mood was quite unfriendly.
Looks like they both were bit upset. (they later claimed
I was late and delaying meeting time, but it was not true
cuz I told the middleman that what time my flight arrives
and I was updating in real time when I will arrive to hotel.
So I think the middleman was not Communicating properly.

Anyway when I took out my own money testing machine
which is a small one that each bills 1 by 1 has to go through
the machine they started to complain and mock me that
this will waste their time.

Anyway after going through the first stack the buyer was
kinda blaming me that if I don't trust him what is the point of
the deal. And that maybe he won't do the deal and just leave.
He was also saying that I didn't show my watch first but
going through thoroughly each bills as if I am think they
could be fake cash.

I was gently asking their understanding in a nice way.
Honestly I was bit afraid and overwhelmed by the atmosphere
surrounded by 2 big guys in age of 40~50 and they did look
bit scary...

Anyway he was really hustling. Actions were very exaggerated
and they both looked quite unstable. As if they were on a run.
Keep making me guilty by mentioning that me counting money
takes whole day and I am taking them as counterfeiters while
I didn't show my watch yet.

He also said that the money he brought is off the record so
he is in danger that tax authorization could track him so he
feels uncomfortable to be in a meeting room too long which is
in public.

The money counting process was that they use their machine
and show me 50 bills each stacks. And then he passes me the
50 bills and then I go through my machine one by one.
Then his friend grabs the 50 bills and make a stack with rubber band.
He then passes the stack to the buyer(father in law) and then he
piles then up.

Here was the point, I had feeling they really wanted to take control
of the cash. And when the buyer gets the stack from his friend
there is a possibility he can swap this stack to fake money stack
behind the cash counting machine that they brought.

So I had this in my mind and after finally the all 350 bills were
verified I asked them very gently that I would like to re-verify
10 bills each from 7 stacks.

Then suddenly the main guy gets very emotional and says he
can't do the deal because I don't trust him. He started to
put 7 stacks into a transparent plastic bag and wrapped the
bag with grey tapes. And also signed something on it.

He was telling me that I insulted him and he can't do the deal
with this disrespect. Either I take the money now or no deal.
I was really trying my best to calm him down and apologize
for misunderstanding but it was not working.

So at the end the deal broke and they left the room.


- conclusion

When I entered the room I already felt the situation was different
then I have been told. And also their actions were very exaggerated
and they looked very unstable and emotional.
And whenever I counted the stack they immediately took back
and passed each other and the pile them up front the the buyer.
There was always a opportunity he could swap the stack to fake
behind his big money counting machine.

They looked like crime syndicate but not like guys who shoot guns.
They were not calm at all and looked unstable

One possibility I could think is they maybe tried to trick me with
cash swapping trick but left because they knew it couldn't work

Anyway I did learn good lesson....for me it was worth trying
cuz if I sold watches it would have been good gain for me.
But at the same time I did my best to minimize the risk..

[asiparks]

So much to unpack in here, none of it good.
I think you were reckless to even think of going, but congrats, I guess, on not getting yourself and your wife attacked if they'd chosen to follow you.

Yes, the money would have been switched. After it's counted and verified - no one touches it other than you, no one takes it to put it in an envelope or bag, or to band it or anything else.

[Trailboss516]

Damn, well at least you didn't get killed.

[Benzsiam]

Glad that you're safe and not get scam.

For me, no matter how much I can earn from this transaction, I will never do the way you did. I just pass from the beginning.

[rmwill]

You did get scammed and put yourself and your wife into harms way with a criminal gang because you were focused on getting a "good gain" Also, all the time you wasted on this dangerous trip and all the pre trip handwringing trying to rationalize the obvious scam. You are very lucky that your greed didn't end with physical harm.

Originally Posted by ddandori

I didn't lose anything but flight ticket to milano and hotel
(also for my wife so total around 500 euro, but I will take
this as a nice weekend getaway)


Anyway I did learn good lesson....for me it was worth trying
cuz if I sold watches it would have been good gain for me.
But at the same time I did my best to minimize the risk..

[Crown & Shield]

To make a long story short, it was a scam. Actually, if the OP had read the press in Europe he would have known that this is one of the most common setups, and it usually involves expensive/vintage cars & watches, money-counting machines and shady types with bags full of cash -most of it fake-.

[ddandori]

makes sense..you are right

[ddandori]

Originally Posted by rmwill

You did get scammed and put yourself and your wife into harms way with a criminal gang because you were focused on getting a "good gain" Also, all the time you wasted on this dangerous trip and all the pre trip handwringing trying to rationalize the obvious scam. You are very lucky that your greed didn't end with physical harm.

you are right...

[MrGoat]

Op, why did you start a new thread with the exact same response you made in this ( asking advise on scam about a purchaser of my watch
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app ) thread?

IMO you made very reckless decisions and risked your wife’s safety as well as your own. Now it’s like you’re trying to “toot your own horn” that all of us were wrong.

You indeed got scammed. Luckily for whatever reason you or your wife didn’t get harmed.

Did you learn a lesson or are you posting this again so maybe you can sway other members to disregard advice from the forum and continue on with sketchy situations so they may be harmed or robbed?


Sent from my Apple privacy invasion product

[ddandori]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Op, why did you start a new thread with the exact same response you made in this ( asking advise on scam about a purchaser of my watch
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app ) thread?

IMO you made very reckless decisions and risked your wife’s safety as well as your own. Now it’s like you’re trying to “toot your own horn” that all of us were wrong.

You indeed got scammed. Luckily for whatever reason you or your wife didn’t get harmed.

Did you learn a lesson or are you posting this again so maybe you can sway other members to disregard advice from the forum and continue on with sketchy situations so they may be harmed or robbed?


Sent from my Apple privacy invasion product

I did get scammed. And I think I was reckless too. I wanted to share
what happend to me and if others know similar cases.
I wrote in another thread because wanted people to read this more.
I was reckless and do think I was very lucky...