I don't think this president bracelet is genuine - can you help?

[hudson564]

First post, love the forum, U.K. member.

I am about to purchase a 1968 DD 1803 with a newer concealed clasp bracelet (which is fine, I prefer this compared to the older clasp version), but my gut feeling is telling me it's not an authentic bracelet, as it's missing the 18k stamp and bracelet number. Can anyone advise? Done loads of research this past week and seen the 18k stamp on pretty much all bracelets, even on the bark versions when the lady hallmark is sometimes missing.

Also notice the square hinge rather than it being round. Lastly the crown is not defined enough (maybe because it's been polished).

Any help would be much appreciated!

[yankeeromeo]

If you're not sure then don't risk it!!!

Golden rule

[bp1000]

Someone has fitted an aftermarket clasp.

If there is a reason why it has to be this watch, you can ask Rolex service or go via an AD for the replacement cost for the clasp. I expect it to be significant, like £700+

If you are confident the bracelet itself and the head is original, has all the papers and box and you obsolete must proceed, you can negotiate a service or replacement clasp.

There are plenty of DD's out there, so you can always pick another for piece of mind.

This is a guess, I could be wrong, a service replacement clasp from Rolex may look like this, you can always inquire with Rolex about its service history, but you have to ask the specific question against the watch number, wether they will tell you is another story.

[hudson564]

Thanks for the replies.

re aftermarket clasp - that was my thoughts as well. The other thing that caught my attention was the "Geneve" lettering is misaligned and the letters don't appear to be the same size. The 'E' seems slightly bigger than the G.

Head is original and has the rare grey/brown sigma dial with wide boy hands and markers, english wheel - my grail watch for some time. Not sure on the rest of bracelet. No box or papers.

Never ceases to amaze me how little dealers know about these watches (or pretend not to know) in order to make the sale.

I just don't know what to do in this case... I've handled fakes before with the aftermarket Italian 18k bracelets and the quality is poor by comparison.

[KY..]

The square cutouts are actually prevalent on early hidden clasps.
You would be better served to ask the moderators to move this thread to the vintage section.
And the photos really need to be clearer to see the stamps.

[mjb01]

Thanks for the info on the square cut at hinge. Looks like all around 1980 presidents were that way! I had someone argue with me saying that was a sign of being fake

[hudson564]

Originally Posted by KY..

The square cutouts are actually prevalent on early hidden clasps.
You would be better served to ask the moderators to move this thread to the vintage section.
And the photos really need to be clearer to see the stamps.

Ok how do I notify the mods?

[favx]

Best advice you would get on the forum will be you should not go for it if you and not sure. Do I agree to that advice? Definitely.

[KatGirl]

The missing hallmarks is troubling. You want a fully authentic watch. Walk away.

Kat


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[yankeeromeo]

If you have doubts walk away.

If it seems to good to be true walk away

If it's too cheap walk away.

[ndirish2001]

It’s not necessarily inauthentic. In that era Rolex would get around tariffs by commissioning gold bracelets from companies at the destination countries. I know they did so in Latin America, the United States, and Japan. My mother’s 1976 gold Lady Datejust was sold by Rolex in Latin America on a gold bracelet commissioned by Rolex from a local manufacturer. I have no idea where this watch was first sold, but that could explain any discrepancies. If you’re interested, ask for more information and ask some experts.


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[ronricks]

Hard to tell from your pics. What are the end links stamped? Should be 53 or 55 with the square cutout. What is the clasp code? Looks like it could be a ‘G’?
I’ve seen legit bracelets missing some hallmarks but these are typically late 70’s very early 80’s examples with 55 end links that came on 18038’s. As others have said you can cobble together these bracelets with different clasps etc. but hard to give you any definitive answers from your pics.

[hudson564]

Originally Posted by ronricks

Hard to tell from your pics. What are the end links stamped? Should be 53 or 55 with the square cutout. What is the clasp code? Looks like it could be a ‘G’?
I’ve seen legit bracelets missing some hallmarks but these are typically late 70’s very early 80’s examples with 55 end links that came on 18038’s. As others have said you can cobble together these bracelets with different clasps etc. but hard to give you any definitive answers from your pics.

I haven't actually seen the watch itself as I'll be buying off a vintage dealer online. The dealer is a big outfit with money back guarantee. I'm thinking of taking a punt on this as it's next day delivery and I will immediately go to Rolex St James Park, London and get it authenticated. Also once I have it in my hands I can upload proper pictures here for inspection as the dealer doesn't have these. Ordinarily I'd pass but the dial is rare, the head confirmed as genuine and I know it's been fitted with a newer concealed bracelet (instead of the older gold clasp version). It's just a case of confirming if it's real or aftermarket

[hudson564]

Originally Posted by ndirish2001

It’s not necessarily inauthentic. In that era Rolex would get around tariffs by commissioning gold bracelets from companies at the destination countries. I know they did so in Latin America, the United States, and Japan. My mother’s 1976 gold Lady Datejust was sold by Rolex in Latin America on a gold bracelet commissioned by Rolex from a local manufacturer. I have no idea where this watch was first sold, but that could explain any discrepancies. If you’re interested, ask for more information and ask some experts.


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That's really interesting. It's original origin is from Latin American as it's on a Spanish day wheel so that could explain it.

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by ndirish2001

It’s not necessarily inauthentic. In that era Rolex would get around tariffs by commissioning gold bracelets from companies at the destination countries. I know they did so in Latin America, the United States, and Japan. My mother’s 1976 gold Lady Datejust was sold by Rolex in Latin America on a gold bracelet commissioned by Rolex from a local manufacturer. I have no idea where this watch was first sold, but that could explain any discrepancies. If you’re interested, ask for more information and ask some experts.


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This is a Swiss bracelet not an overseas made bracelet

To the other person the square is quite ok.

Remove a link and show me a screw thread and a screw hoke the little is section is a worry. I also need a pic of the endlink .

Also I need better shots of the clasp.

Also see my thread on the reference section. Cheers


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[joli160]

Originally Posted by hudson564

I haven't actually seen the watch itself as I'll be buying off a vintage dealer online. The dealer is a big outfit with money back guarantee. I'm thinking of taking a punt on this as it's next day delivery and I will immediately go to Rolex St James Park, London and get it authenticated. Also once I have it in my hands I can upload proper pictures here for inspection as the dealer doesn't have these. Ordinarily I'd pass but the dial is rare, the head confirmed as genuine and I know it's been fitted with a newer concealed bracelet (instead of the older gold clasp version). It's just a case of confirming if it's real or aftermarket

You might be well off supplying the pictures which crowncollection (David) asks. I would trust his opinion above anyone else including the RSC’s.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by hudson564

I haven't actually seen the watch itself as I'll be buying off a vintage dealer online. The dealer is a big outfit with money back guarantee. I'm thinking of taking a punt on this as it's next day delivery and I will immediately go to Rolex St James Park, London and get it authenticated. Also once I have it in my hands I can upload proper pictures here for inspection as the dealer doesn't have these. Ordinarily I'd pass but the dial is rare, the head confirmed as genuine and I know it's been fitted with a newer concealed bracelet (instead of the older gold clasp version). It's just a case of confirming if it's real or aftermarket

Because it is vintage, an AD may not be versed in authenticity of such an old item.
It is best to post here where Vintage is more scrutinized and the experts here have many decades more knowledge than most ADs ever will.