Being honest at the AD

[KB29]

I have an appointment later this week at the local AP boutique to talk with them about a couple of pieces I'd be interested in; but I'm curious about how I should go about the discussion-or if I should even go in at all?

The only AP I currently have is a Code 11.59 three-hander that i inherited, but I'm on their radar as I had it in for service and a pretty costly repair a few months ago. I have other higher end pieces (Rolex) and I'm not worried about conveying to them my financial ability to afford the pieces I would ask for; so that said...

The pieces I'm interested in (while knowing realistically that some of the more in demand pieces won't be offered) would be another 11.59 either chrono or base model-probably in a PM; and perhaps one or two of the Offshore models. I think these are realistic to think that they may be offered, albeit with a short waitlist.

My question however, is that these pieces can currently be had at or below retail on the grey market and I don't know how or if I should ask for any discount through the AD. Or if I should convey that I'm aware of this fact at all.

There's something to be said for building a relationship with an AD in order to be offered more in demand models later at retails prices; but I don't know if overpaying for pieces to get there is worth that trouble. (Not to mention the possible pressure of buying less desired pieces in order to build a spend history). I love AP, but it's unlikely I'd ever want any of the really high end, high-complications. But special dial colors or combinations could certainly be possible.

I suppose the same question could be posed for Rolex as well. Is the AD relationship as important now as it has been for the last couple of years now that prices ahve begun to come back down? And how does one navigate knowledge of the grey market with an AD (who is certainly aware if such)?

[Gandor]

Everyone knows what the market price of these watches are. There are no discounts.

If you're not planning on buying a collection of APs it's almost always cheaper to go gray.

Do not buy anything you don't actually want. With the current state of how boutiques are run, reselling a watch got from the boutique leads to being added to a blacklist, so it's REALLY IMPORTANT to only buy what you actually want.

[watchaser]

IMO, if your journey is going to be short and sweet AP, I would go gray and enjoy today.

Prices are starting to fall and you can find 11:59 trading below retail and offshore models trading at retail and or below.

[mickyd329]

There are pretty much no more AP AD's in the U.S. They are all boutiques that are either owned and operated by AP themselves or joint venture boutiques.

If you are only interested 1 or 2 AP's, then I suggest you go grey. Secondary prices continue to fall. If you're looking to build out a collection, starting a relationship with a boutique might be a good idea. At the moment, there are no discounts at the boutiques.

I've learned that being honest about your goals is the best way. Let them know what you are after and make it clear that you don't want to buy anything you don't want just for relationship sake. Most importantly, show your enthusiasm for the brand and the hobby.

Which SA you end up with will be the key. If you get an SA that you connect with, they will be your biggest advocate. Some SA's might not invest in you if they feel like you're a 1 or 2 watch purchase client. It's really the luck of the draw. Good luck! Keep us posted on how it goes.

[SN2354]

I was honest at the AD, wanted a 26715st, and they were real honest back to me.... 15-20 years

[dauster]

Originally Posted by SN2354

I was honest at the AD, wanted a 26715st, and they were real honest back to me.... 15-20 years

lol

[VogelPhoenix]

If the endgame is another Code and a couple of ROOs, going grey is definitely going to be more cost-effective. Even if there is a significant downturn in the retail market, AP is going to resist discounts at boutiques as long as they can.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by KB29

And how does one navigate knowledge of the grey market with an AD (who is certainly aware if such)?

From the dealer's standpoint, it's apples vs. oranges.

They know the grey prices (IF they even care), but they aren't offering a grey market watch; they are offering you a watch from an AD that is registered to you.

So there really isn't anything to "navigate" -- the answer from an AD should be and often is, "If you want to buy a grey market watch go buy one."

There are no discounts from AP boutiques these days. They won't throw you out for asking, so by all means ask.

(I know a few Rolex SAs who truly do not follow the grey market prices. Because to them it's irrelevant. They get watches in and they sell them. There is no discount offered and what someone might pay for a Rolex on the grey market is as relevant to them as what someone might pay for an Omega Speedmaster.)

[dcash0615]

If your next piece you want is from the CODE line, that will not be an issue getting as your first piece through the boutique. The CODE is typically the model they try to push as your first purchase. If your end goal is to build a relationship with AP for the long term, you will want to build that purchase history with the AP boutique. If you are concerned about resale value and not building a long term relationship with AP, buy on the grey market if less expensive. It is best to be very transparent with the AP boutique and only express interest in pieces that you will want to wear. Do not expect to receive any discounts at the present time.

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by KB29

I have an appointment later this week at the local AP boutique to talk with them about a couple of pieces I'd be interested in; but I'm curious about how I should go about the discussion-or if I should even go in at all?

The only AP I currently have is a Code 11.59 three-hander that i inherited, but I'm on their radar as I had it in for service and a pretty costly repair a few months ago. I have other higher end pieces (Rolex) and I'm not worried about conveying to them my financial ability to afford the pieces I would ask for; so that said...

The pieces I'm interested in (while knowing realistically that some of the more in demand pieces won't be offered) would be another 11.59 either chrono or base model-probably in a PM; and perhaps one or two of the Offshore models. I think these are realistic to think that they may be offered, albeit with a short waitlist.

My question however, is that these pieces can currently be had at or below retail on the grey market and I don't know how or if I should ask for any discount through the AD. Or if I should convey that I'm aware of this fact at all.

There's something to be said for building a relationship with an AD in order to be offered more in demand models later at retails prices; but I don't know if overpaying for pieces to get there is worth that trouble. (Not to mention the possible pressure of buying less desired pieces in order to build a spend history). I love AP, but it's unlikely I'd ever want any of the really high end, high-complications. But special dial colors or combinations could certainly be possible.

I suppose the same question could be posed for Rolex as well. Is the AD relationship as important now as it has been for the last couple of years now that prices ahve begun to come back down? And how does one navigate knowledge of the grey market with an AD (who is certainly aware if such)?

In today's market, it's obvious most references are either below or at msrp in the grey market. And Boutiques knows this. And neither does Boutiques give a discount. So I don't really see a point in bringing these up as nothing will change.

If you are only looking to add just 1 AP to your collection, by all means go grey. You are not going to be allocated a hot reference for your one and only purchase (which will be commanding a premium in the secondary market) by the Boutique.

If the one AP you are looking to add is a reference costing much less in secondary market, all the more it makes more sense to go grey.

On the other hand, if you are thinking of buying multiple pieces down the road, be it a mixture of ROs/ROOs/CODEs (or in my case, just looking at building a CODE collection only), I will suggest establishing your journey with the Boutique. It helps in getting highly sought after pieces in the future. We cannot discount the fact that moving forward, CODEs might have some very interesting releases as AP is focusing on developing new ideas to be incorporated into it. There's only so much left to be done for ROs/ROOs. Example is the Starwheel and Grand Sonnerie, for now.

[Sunny_Submariner]

I went to the AP boutique in pursuit of an RO and was somewhat convinced to look into a Code 11.59. I almost pulled the trigger on the Code, but realized I wasn't in love with it enough to spend the kind of money it commanded. The current Code 11.59s I would 100% buy, but when they first came out, I wasn't into them. Since I declined the 11.59, I suspect that I'll prob never get the opportunity to buy an RO from that boutique. When you go to AP, you get the feeling that you need to follow the rules or else you'll be shunned. It ended up being a blessing in disguise because I was able to get my dream Patek from an AD I have an EXTREMELY good relationship with.

I don't know if the boutiques have changed their ways under the new leadership, but from my experience, the sales person will subtly interview you and try and get an idea of who you are before you talk purchasing. I recommend working with someone you could imagine hanging out with outside of the boutique and chatting about watches. If you make a good enough connection, I suspect it is possible to get an RO as your first piece.

[ButtButt]

Originally Posted by Sunny_Submariner

I went to the AP boutique in pursuit of an RO and was somewhat convinced to look into a Code 11.59. I almost pulled the trigger on the Code, but realized I wasn't in love with it enough to spend the kind of money it commanded. The current Code 11.59s I would 100% buy, but when they first came out, I wasn't into them. Since I declined the 11.59, I suspect that I'll prob never get the opportunity to buy an RO from that boutique. When you go to AP, you get the feeling that you need to follow the rules or else you'll be shunned. It ended up being a blessing in disguise because I was able to get my dream Patek from an AD I have an EXTREMELY good relationship with.

I don't know if the boutiques have changed their ways under the new leadership, but from my experience, the sales person will subtly interview you and try and get an idea of who you are before you talk purchasing. I recommend working with someone you could imagine hanging out with outside of the boutique and chatting about watches. If you make a good enough connection, I suspect it is possible to get an RO as your first piece.

Every boutique is probably different but I also turned down a couple of the gold Codes that were initially offered to me. I kept in touch maybe twice in a year and when the steel ones came out I liked them enough to ask for one. I picked it up earlier this year and my SA said a RO shouldn't be a problem as the next watch.

[Sunny_Submariner]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

Every boutique is probably different but I also turned down a couple of the gold Codes that were initially offered to me. I kept in touch maybe twice in a year and when the steel ones came out I liked them enough to ask for one. I picked it up earlier this year and my SA said a RO shouldn't be a problem as the next watch.

Oh awesome! That is good to hear :)

[SpeedyTuomas]

Just my two cents, but I would never buy a piece I don't want in order to get a piece that I do want. Also seems quite shady and I know it happens with watches, Birkin bags, cars etc.

[KB29]

Thanks for all the feedback here, guys.

I think I'm sort of in the middle of the scenario's we're talking about. I definitely see myself getting into several more AP's along the way, but at least at this point my interest doesn't see me spending into the 100's of thousands on any one brand (or any one piece for that matter).

At the moment, the Code's I'm interested in are all chrono's- probably in a precious metal. (I'm one of the few it seems not to be sold yet on the dial patterns of the steel versions) These seem to be going around the SRP right now - so it would seem there's no harm in sharing that interest with the boutique and being honest about what I would purchase if offered.

Same for the Offshore. Many from this line, particularly older models, are a little over the top for me. But, some of the newer offerings in titanium, ceramic, more subtle colors, etc. I could really go for. Pricing here seem to be around the same as the Code mentioned above - so worth a mention and discussion.

Either way, I agree with those who said don't buy anything you don't like just to build a purchase history if that isn't the long term focus. I don't have intentions to flip anything for a quick buck-so I'd only be looking to buy something I did intend to wear. It is always nice to know that down the line, should something fall out of favor, the hit wouldn't be too significant - but you also get to wear the watch during that time. So there's that.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by KB29

Thanks for all the feedback here, guys.

I think I'm sort of in the middle of the scenario's we're talking about. I definitely see myself getting into several more AP's along the way, but at least at this point my interest doesn't see me spending into the 100's of thousands on any one brand (or any one piece for that matter).

At the moment, the Code's I'm interested in are all chrono's- probably in a precious metal. (I'm one of the few it seems not to be sold yet on the dial patterns of the steel versions) These seem to be going around the SRP right now - so it would seem there's no harm in sharing that interest with the boutique and being honest about what I would purchase if offered.

Same for the Offshore. Many from this line, particularly older models, are a little over the top for me. But, some of the newer offerings in titanium, ceramic, more subtle colors, etc. I could really go for. Pricing here seem to be around the same as the Code mentioned above - so worth a mention and discussion.

Either way, I agree with those who said don't buy anything you don't like just to build a purchase history if that isn't the long term focus. I don't have intentions to flip anything for a quick buck-so I'd only be looking to buy something I did intend to wear. It is always nice to know that down the line, should something fall out of favor, the hit wouldn't be too significant - but you also get to wear the watch during that time. So there's that.

Reading this I would go grey and save a bunch of money on the code and ROO purchases. The money you save easily gets you a RO even if slightly above retail


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[APman3000]

I would advise you to go grey particularly given the pieces that you are currently interested in.

If you are interested in building a relationship and obtaining many more pieces from AP, it may make sense to go to the boutique but I would urge caution if dealing with the Dallas boutique (since you're in Texas). You won't have any trouble getting a Code and/or Offshore from them, but if you're trying to get a RO or ROC from them, it's going to be exceedingly difficult even if you play their game by their rules. I've purchased three watches from them (and own five APs overall) and spent over $100k and I still can't secure a blue dial or even a SS ROC in a non-white color. If you have any other boutique that you can work with, I would suggest you try that if, again, you want to go down the boutique route.

Good luck with whichever approach you decide to take.

[Fleetlord]

As you had stated earlier, conveyance of financial ability to acquire these references are not a worry, so I wouldn’t go grey to save a few bucks. That’s really the true waste of money as buying grey will get you nowhere with the boutique.

Buy from the boutique, build your collection through the brand and enjoy the journey!

[Tools]

Dealers know that if you don't buy something from them, the next guy in the door likely will.

Acting like you may go grey if they don't sell something to you is not likely a winning position.

[piratfisk]

Originally Posted by SN2354

I was honest at the AD, wanted a 26715st, and they were real honest back to me.... 15-20 years

I was honest, too. I said I wanted a 15550ST in dark blue. She replied "that's like... one of the most sought-after watches in the world right now... Are there any other pieces you're interested in? Like the ROO or Code 1159?" "No, I really just love the bracelet on the 37mm RO." "okay, we'll be in touch!"

Reading between the lines: Enjoy shopping on the gray market.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by piratfisk

I was honest, too. I said I wanted a 15550ST in dark blue. She replied "that's like... one of the most sought-after watches in the world right now... Are there any other pieces you're interested in? Like the ROO or Code 1159?" "No, I really just love the bracelet on the 37mm RO." "okay, we'll be in touch!"

Reading between the lines: Enjoy shopping on the gray market.

Well... Yes.
But so is going to the Ferrari dealership and saying you really only like the Enzo... There's a reason it's popular and there's a reason the popular models are allocated to big spenders and/ people that also have less popular ones

[piratfisk]

Originally Posted by messikens

Well... Yes.
But so is going to the Ferrari dealership and saying you really only like the Enzo... There's a reason it's popular and there's a reason the popular models are allocated to big spenders and/ people that also have less popular ones

So, honesty is not the best policy when talking with AP SAs? IDK about you, but the rest of the AP catalog isn't as enticing to me. I'd rather not be one of those chumps spending tens- or hundreds-of-thousands of dollars on watches & jewelry they don't want just with the hope of being selected by the horology gnomes living atop Matterhorn to buy a watch at MSRP a decade later...

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by KB29

Thanks for all the feedback here, guys.

I think I'm sort of in the middle of the scenario's we're talking about. I definitely see myself getting into several more AP's along the way, but at least at this point my interest doesn't see me spending into the 100's of thousands on any one brand (or any one piece for that matter).

At the moment, the Code's I'm interested in are all chrono's- probably in a precious metal. (I'm one of the few it seems not to be sold yet on the dial patterns of the steel versions) These seem to be going around the SRP right now - so it would seem there's no harm in sharing that interest with the boutique and being honest about what I would purchase if offered.

Same for the Offshore. Many from this line, particularly older models, are a little over the top for me. But, some of the newer offerings in titanium, ceramic, more subtle colors, etc. I could really go for. Pricing here seem to be around the same as the Code mentioned above - so worth a mention and discussion.

Either way, I agree with those who said don't buy anything you don't like just to build a purchase history if that isn't the long term focus. I don't have intentions to flip anything for a quick buck-so I'd only be looking to buy something I did intend to wear. It is always nice to know that down the line, should something fall out of favor, the hit wouldn't be too significant - but you also get to wear the watch during that time. So there's that.

From what you're describing here, I would definitely go grey and save the money.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by piratfisk

So, honesty is not the best policy when talking with AP SAs? IDK about you, but the rest of the AP catalog isn't as enticing to me. I'd rather not be one of those chumps spending tens- or hundreds-of-thousands of dollars on watches & jewelry they don't want just with the hope of being selected by the horology gnomes living atop Matterhorn to buy a watch at MSRP a decade later...

A bit curious why those only interested in ROs, and unsuccessful in their pursuit, often feel compelled refer to others with different tastes (or just a less constrained budget) as chumps, simps or less gracious terms? Not going to psychoanalyze this, but maybe an opportunity for some introspection.


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[Lemarp]

Originally Posted by Gandor

Everyone knows what the market price of these watches are. There are no discounts.

If you're not planning on buying a collection of APs it's almost always cheaper to go gray.

Do not buy anything you don't actually want. With the current state of how boutiques are run, reselling a watch got from the boutique leads to being added to a blacklist, so it's REALLY IMPORTANT to only buy what you actually want.

I refuse to buy anything that I don't want. It's funny how in other threads people list like 7 watches you have to buy before getting a Jumbo but if you sell anything, you get blacklisted.

So AP expects you to buy these watches, dump them in a safety deposit box and collect dust before you can actually buy something you really want.

If that's the true path to ownership, the grey market is actually cheap. Makes you wonder how these pieces end up in the grey market so 'cheap.' Especially if the original buyer would get blacklisted. Something just doesn't add up.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Lemarp

I refuse to buy anything that I don't want. It's funny how in other threads people list like 7 watches you have to buy before getting a Jumbo but if you sell anything, you get blacklisted.

So AP expects you to buy these watches, dump them in a safety deposit box and collect dust before you can actually buy something you really want.

If that's the true path to ownership, the grey market is actually cheap. Makes you wonder how these pieces end up in the grey market so 'cheap.' Especially if the original buyer would get blacklisted. Something just doesn't add up.

cmon we all know how this works, most SAs don't care that much in general and have been lucky the last couple of years with the crazy demand. like most normal salespeople that makes them a bit arrogant at times and they don't care that much to cater normal people that buy maybe one to two pieces (of course not all of them).
AP is likley being sold to LVMH or some other conglomerate in the near future (of course I don't know for sure) and they will ride the wave of "high demand" until the ship is sinking.
For now it works because even though grey prices have tanked, they make few enough watches that makes them sell their 50k pieces per year.

The grey market is a great way to get watches you actually want unless you have super big pockets or already have an existing relationship - otherwise AP DOES NOT CARE to cater to you and our wish for a single RO !!!
Rant over :)

[messikens]

Originally Posted by piratfisk

So, honesty is not the best policy when talking with AP SAs? IDK about you, but the rest of the AP catalog isn't as enticing to me. I'd rather not be one of those chumps spending tens- or hundreds-of-thousands of dollars on watches & jewelry they don't want just with the hope of being selected by the horology gnomes living atop Matterhorn to buy a watch at MSRP a decade later...

Then why ask the question if you're already a non-chump?

All I'm saying is that going into a new store and asking for THE hottest model is likely not going to result in the answer you want.

At the end of the day the SA hears the same outcome of "I want a jumbo". Whether you truly love it so much and have no other interest or you don't want to spend money on anything else doesn't matter.

So from his side the reply should be "oh yes sir - I appreciate the honesty. Let me reward you with a watch that many thousand other established clients only get as their 4-5th piece and are still waiting for, but your honesty of course trumps all of that and us trying to establish long term clients and maximizing their value"...

Who's the chump now? Go grey and don't overthink it

[rappvctrinity]

they have to like you. you have to buy stuff. it is a relationship with the SA and boutique manager. Its kinda fun. lol

[KB29]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

As you had stated earlier, conveyance of financial ability to acquire these references are not a worry, so I wouldn’t go grey to save a few bucks. That’s really the true waste of money as buying grey will get you nowhere with the boutique.

A fool and his money are bound to part.

Just because I can afford their pieces, doesn’t mean I will if there’s a better course of action available.

I think based on the advice here, it sounds like grey may be the route. I have no need to spend money I don’t need to, to get the same item elsewhere for less-it it still means difficulty or hoops to jump through to get something more in demand down the road.

[solrac6262]

Originally Posted by APman3000

I would advise you to go grey particularly given the pieces that you are currently interested in.

If you are interested in building a relationship and obtaining many more pieces from AP, it may make sense to go to the boutique but I would urge caution if dealing with the Dallas boutique (since you're in Texas). You won't have any trouble getting a Code and/or Offshore from them, but if you're trying to get a RO or ROC from them, it's going to be exceedingly difficult even if you play their game by their rules. I've purchased three watches from them (and own five APs overall) and spent over $100k and I still can't secure a blue dial or even a SS ROC in a non-white color. If you have any other boutique that you can work with, I would suggest you try that if, again, you want to go down the boutique route.

Good luck with whichever approach you decide to take.

have you been at the store recently? I was last year, took my ROC watch for service, but nothing was available, I'm looking for a Diver now, is it hard to get from them?