AD versus Gray Market. Buy what you love.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

Ah...the good old days.

Indeed

I'm curious to know your thoughts on this ....

I've been into Rolex since my first in 1992. Back then even professional references were at a discount. If memory serves, I bought my Seadweller for 20%off list from my AD.

Has there ever been another time in your collecting where DJ's and PM Rolex, did NOT sell at a discount?

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[fsprow]

I think a key question is how many folks that have purchased on the reseller market are unhappy with their decision. Either the price or the purchase experience.

My belief is that few are unhappy. As for myself, I no longer spend (waste) the time with retail dealers - and have been very pleased with the purchases. The in-store experience (a bottle of water, a little gift) means nothing to me. This applies to all "luxury" (hate that word) goods - watches, jewelry, scarce autos etc.

[Andrews148]

I wouldn't buy from a grey and I wouldn't kiss an AD's arse.

Luckily, the watches I wanted became available by being polite and waiting a few months.

[KingSub]

I feel as people's collections start growing and they are now going after the more desirable watches they shift to gray dealers. Like they went to their AD and bought a Datejust a black Submariner. Now they want the GMT the green Sub, a PM piece. And now the AD starts playing games with them and tells them give me 6 months then after 6 months it's another 6 months or a year or maybe they never offer you the watch. They keep asking you to buy watched you don't want, like buy another Datejust, buy a Yachtmaster 1, buy a ladies Datejust etc... And you do and more and more and more and you still don't get offered the piece you're inherently after and the excuse it it's Rolex's fault. I think true collectors eventually get tired of these games and just say no to buying stupid pieces they don't want to own in their collection or forced to flip and then the AD is mad and asking you why did you flip the watch? Acting surprised that the two tone Datejust they sold you was something so rare and the fact you sold it now means you're blacklisted from getting other pieces which you wanted in the first place. So that's why I think most true collectors who want to have real collections eventually just end up working with gray dealers.

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[samuel019]

Originally Posted by KingSub

I feel as people's collections start growing and they are now going after the more desirable watches they shift to gray dealers. Like they went to their AD and bought a Datejust a black Submariner. Now they want the GMT the green Sub, a PM piece. And now the AD starts playing games with them and tells them give me 6 months then after 6 months it's another 6 months or a year or maybe they never offer you the watch. They keep asking you to buy watched you don't want, like buy another Datejust, buy a Yachtmaster 1, buy a ladies Datejust etc... And you do and more and more and more and you still don't get offered the piece you're inherently after and the excuse it it's Rolex's fault. I think true collectors eventually get tired of these games and just say no to buying stupid pieces they don't want to own in their collection or forced to flip and then the AD is mad and asking you why did you flip the watch? Acting surprised that the two tone Datejust they sold you was something so rare and the fact you sold it now means you're blacklisted from getting other pieces which you wanted in the first place. So that's why I think most true collectors who want to have real collections eventually just end up working with gray dealers.

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While I agree with a lot of what you just wrote. I think its A D dependent. Which of course I know you already know. They are tons of members on TRF that have long standing relationships that get what they want. Do I get every single hot model that Rolex makes? Absolutely not. But I do get a few here and there.

The part I agree with the most is the "leading you on" part. I know damn good and well my A D has received a fair share of 116500's. I've never gotten one. He knows I want one. Will it ever happen? Have no idea. Got tired of waiting and bought one awhile back and obviously had to go Grey. So thats where I agree with you the most. I want what I want and dont want to wait forever and a day. One thing I will say is that my A D has never ever asked me to buy something I didnt want or tell me buy other jewelry to help my situation. I have bought other jewelry but I needed it anyway. So why not try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I find myself content with my current situation. Dont get em all but I get a few. I'll take that versus some of the other situations I hear.

[Rogerab]

Having tried all routes, brick and mortar grey is what I prefer. Of course that involves premium pricing which I either think is worth it, watch dependent, or not. You can take your time, try on a variety of watches, do reasonable trades and negotiate, albeit, against high asking prices. Sure, if offered a watch I really wanted from an AD, at MSRP, I would gladly buy and have done so on a few occasions. Brick and mortar grey makes sense it me in the current market environment but I’ll be opportunistic if the situation changes.

[Longhorn]

I'm here to represent the contingency that goes into threads and says "have some emotional intelligence, charisma, yaddayadda, it'll get you a long way to getting the watch you want".

I don't regret going grey. I've gone grey when it was cheap for me to do so, i've gone grey when it was expensive for me to do so. It all balances out somehow.

[m j b]

I am not a whale, not even a dolphin. But I'm a good customer at my local BMW dealership, buying many cars for myself and wife. And not cheap ones.

Right now the market is tight, and if I want a new car, they will be happy to sell it to me, at current market prices, which is basically MSRP or higher (like for an M3). Do my years of sales history mean anything at all to them?

Not really. If someone else is front of me on the list, then they'll get the next car. Will I get an extra discount because of my loyalty? No. They're there to maximize profits.

My Rolex AD is no different.

I think you guys and gals - most of you - are dreaming when you think that you can establish a "relationship" if you are not a whale.

[Benzsiam]

I think OP did an Incoming WG Sub. Blueberry late last year. He even mentioned that his AD told him it was a rare piece and they got only one per year.

At that time, you seem to love and very proud of it. I thought that AD did you a favor to let you have a sought after item.

I think you probably preferred RG or YG more than WG so that is why after awhile you fall out of love. I think you still can sell it and probably get even or with a minimum loss.

You should go back to your AD and express your interest in RG timepieces. Most ADs love clients with big fund so they can sell you more PM timepieces.

[KingSub]

Originally Posted by Benzsiam

I think OP did an Incoming WG Sub. Blueberry late last year. He even mentioned that his AD told him it was a rare piece and they got only one per year.

At that time, you seem to love and very proud of it. I thought that AD did you a favor to let you have a sought after item.

I think you probably preferred RG or YG more than WG so that is why after awhile you fall out of love. I think you still can sell it and probably get even or with a minimum loss.

You should go back to your AD and express your interest in RG timepieces. Most ADs love clients with big fund so they can sell you more PM timepieces.

Good Memory! That AD has known I prefer RG pieces and even prior to the WG sub I had requested a RG piece the WG sub was out of left-field. Even after the purchase I had been requesting RG pieces from them and they never offered me anything even after following up with them every 1-2 weeks. And even my last conversation with them a few days ago they said we can't promise anything and we don't know if and when we can offer you a RG piece.

More then likely I have just ended up with a dud AD at this point, and I don't regret the purchase because I have enjoyed the watch. I regret having hopes that after purchasing a PM piece I would have an AD who cared about my relationship with their store and would value me as a great client and offer me pieces accordingly which they failed to do.

Now I have stopped calling them at this point as it honestly feels like I am begging them for pieces which I can't seem to understand why I would be doing that? And that is what has tainted the whole ownership experience of the watch and now when I look at my watch I am reminded about how many months I have wasted and how many opportunities I have let go with gray dealers in hopes that my AD would come through for me and have seen the watches I wanted to own and were close to retail pricing last year and now they are like 30% higher and I am still getting the same line from my AD.

I guess I am just annoyed and felt like ranting. But I guess I also wanted to have this be a warning to new buyers into the brand who get caught up with with BS from their ADs. Now at least I am lucky enough that I can exit my WG Sub if I wish at a price close to what I paid for it. But there are many people who can't exit their DJ or other models (without significant loss) they bought in hopes of eventually buying a piece they wanted to own.

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[bob sims]

Originally Posted by asiparks

oh. Cool.

"Excuse me, are you a decent AD who won't cheerfully bleed me of my money in return for allowing me the impression that i may, at some future time, get something that I might actuallywant ?"
"Why, yes, yes of course Sir!"
"Well, that's enough for me !"
"Thankyou Sir. Now if you'll walk with me over to the tennis bracelets..."

Perfect description of AD's.

[KingSub]

In closing I will say this, an AD relationship is priceless. There's nothing quite like the feeling of acquiring a piece brand new from an AD, and knowing it's registered to you in your name, you are the first owner.

This addiction of collecting is a very tireless hobby. And there's always an adrenaline rush when you get that text or call from them and something you're interested inn comes inn.

It's tough being an AD I am sure you have literally an endless number of customers who majority of the time want the same exact watch. So how do you choose? We rant and complain and I am sure ADs likewise rant and complain about customers like us amongst themselves.

What's true is at the end of the day we all love collecting watches and building our collections. And I guess below all that banter and complaints we do form meaningful relationships with them, and at this point mine truly feel like extended family, like they have families of their own, they have children, they will be taking care of me when I am in a wheelchair and my 40 year old sub needs servicing.

Yes I complain, bitch and moan when I think about how long I have been waiting for some of my desirable pieces. But then I am beginning to realize that's half the fun in building the collection. It feels truly different when you don't have to complain about a watch because you're wearing it on your wrist and your thirst is quenched, now you're left to wander and find the next piece to lust after, which is where I truly feel for the AD .

You guys are awesome! And it's great to know there's a place to go to voice my frustrations because God knows this is my wife's least favorite subject, and I can use all the therapy I get from my support group .

[sakolander]

Originally Posted by joli160

I gave up on AD purchases a long time ago. Works for me. No waiting times, no kissing up, no endless begging.
I pay and have it the next day delivered

FOR SURE....I AGREE 100%...
So tired of reading about the AD....
Most of us, I think, are not buying 2-3 Rolexes every year!
If you want a watch, pay a little extra and go gray....
Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to kiss up to the AD to save $3000!!!

[Kelvin Knight]

“from the irrational biases and group mentalities that push prices of an asset to an unsustainable level, to the eventual collapse of those inflated prices.”

Tulip Mania, baby. Paul Newman’s Daytona kicked it off in ‘17. Auctions are, notoriously, purely staged events and completely choreographed in advance. Don’t fall for the hype.

(From, a diehard Rolex man)