*NOT* 100% GENUINE ROLEX-RECENT 1990s QUICKSET MODEL-RARE..Becker Time.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Beckertime

The description has been added to to properly disclose the bezel. We all know how long it takes to order a bezel insert from Rolex. Pictures were taken before my watchmaker fully serviced the watch. The watch is 100% original Rolex. There is no aftermarket parts on this baby.

Thanks for the clarification

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by Beckertime

The description has been added to to properly disclose the bezel. We all know how long it takes to order a bezel insert from Rolex. Pictures were taken before my watchmaker fully serviced the watch. The watch is 100% original Rolex. There is no aftermarket parts on this baby.

Thanks for your responce however the photo does show a aftermarket bezel and you needed to corrected it before you posted the watch for sale. One option is you could have at least put a Rolex bezel on it as a temp.


This makes you look bad to others who can spot fakes and then when you have a issue like this it puts doubt in other peoples mind. If I was to buy a Rolex watch, after reading this thread, I would stay clear of your watches.

And no I am not trying to make a flame here I am trying to be honest.

[Beckertime]

With the volume of watches that I sell, sometimes I have to take pictures before my watchmaker services/refurbishes a watch or use file photos. Every watch received by a buyer is exactly as described. I encourage all buyers to have any watch purchased on the Internet fully checked by Rolex. We stand behind what we sell and always make ourselves available to our buyers for questions or concerns.

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

Thanks for your responce however the photo does show a aftermarket bezel and you needed to corrected it before you posted the watch for sale. One option is you could have at least put a Rolex bezel on it as a temp.


This makes you look bad to others who can spot fakes and then when you have a issue like this it puts doubt in other peoples mind. If I was to buy a Rolex watch, after reading this thread, I would stay clear of your watches.

And no I am not trying to make a flame here I am trying to be honest.

Good advice. The seller should have mentioned the after market insert. Btw, please can we all be specific about what the parts are. It's not the "bezel" it's just the insert in this case which is a much smaller matter entirely. Also, as shown by Orchi there are so many ever so slightly different styles of insert that 99.9% of the world would never notice that it isn't a "real" Rolex one. And when worn it doesn't make any difference to the overall appearance of the whole watch.

I really do feel though that spotting fakes and spotting small details that are changed is very different. I think people here are getting a bit to quick to condemn watches for the tinniest, slightest thing that is "fake" in their eyes without taking into account the bigger picture which is that on older watches such small additions or differences (like bezel inserts, not main important items like dials or bracelets) are common and not necessarily the end of the world or even that important. The seller pointed out how long it takes, hard it is to get the original Rolex inserts. The consequence of Rolex continuing and increasing to limit parts more and more is that little things like this are common. If i bought a GMT i'd probably buy 3 different after market inserts to switch between and save my original Rolex one from getting scratched and worn/damaged.

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by Beckertime

The description has been added to to properly disclose the bezel. We all know how long it takes to order a bezel insert from Rolex. Pictures were taken before my watchmaker fully serviced the watch. The watch is 100% original Rolex. There is no aftermarket parts on this baby.

Err buddy Berker Time...thanks for speedy response...

1st up...although Orchi can appreciate your effort to explain the issue...
relating to the Generic Aftermarket Factory Bezel Insert
(Fakee in Orchi's book...perhaps the entire Bezel assembly too?)...
Orchi is in opinion that you still fall short of describing the fact...
relating to the 78360 Oyster bracelet which is NOT being in...
"SUPER EXCELLENT CONDITIONS"...

The Oyster bracelet presently fitted to the watch has stretched n significant degree of looseness...
It OBVIOUSLY has worn out bracelet links...hinges...n "501B" Endlinks...after years of CONSIDERABLE wear n tear...







Quite honestly...Orchi wonders how the picture taken from the backcase...
does NOT show much signs of wear n tear...
or worn off area at the ends of case lugs...
between the worn off 1st links nearest to the Endlinks n case lugs...
whilst the same time...there is a wider gap(roughly 1-2mm) between the hinges to the Endlinks...

Normally in such circumstance...
the worn off outer edges 1st bracelet links...
hinges n Endlinks nearest to the case lugs...
would certainly have caused abrasion...
against the ends of the case lugs...
thus wearing off much of the steel at the ends of lugs...

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Orchi - Thanks for the pics of the different bezels. You're getting the names/styles slightly wrong though. "San(s) Serif" means without serifs. So the 1st pic in your post No.26 is a Serif insert, the 2nd is sans serif and the 3rd is serif.

Err buddy BluePrince...Ooops! thanks for the pointer...

Sorry for the mix up...Orchi's bad England...

[Beckertime]

It looks worst than it is because of the black stand it is on and the angle it is in. You will notice the picture of the case back I took off the stand. Angles and placement of a watch make a huge difference. There is very little stretch in the band. It is impossible to tell that from the picture. You are seeing the angle and part of the black holder that the watch is on

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by Beckertime

The description has been added to to properly disclose the bezel. We all know how long it takes to order a bezel insert from Rolex. Pictures were taken before my watchmaker fully serviced the watch. The watch is 100% original Rolex. There is no aftermarket parts on this baby.

Thank you for the response; we respect your being here to address our concerns. If you can make it in "WatchOut" you can make it anywhere.

Most AD sales people could not/wold not venture into "WatchOut".

[TheBluePrince]

Originally Posted by Beckertime

It looks worst than it is because of the black stand it is on and the angle it is in. You will notice the picture of the case back I took off the stand. Angles and placement of a watch make a huge difference. There is very little stretch in the band. It is impossible to tell that from the picture. You are seeing the angle and part of the black holder that the watch is on

Thank you.

This is what i said but everyone would not believe it.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Also, as shown by Orchi there are so many ever so slightly different styles of insert that 99.9% of the world would never notice that it isn't a "real" Rolex one. And when worn it doesn't make any difference to the overall appearance of the whole watch.

I really do feel though that spotting fakes and spotting small details that are changed is very different. I think people here are getting a bit to quick to condemn watches for the tinniest, slightest thing that is "fake" in their eyes without taking into account the bigger picture which is that on older watches such small additions or differences (like bezel inserts, not main important items like dials or bracelets) are common and not necessarily the end of the world or even that important.

I would like to address your points. First "WatchOut" is not 99.9% of the world, 99.9% of the world would be happy with a Timex or no watch. "WatcOut" is in the top 44/100% of "WIS" we be 133T.

As for your second point, take care if the small details and the big ones will take care of them selves. New York City is now the safest big city, this came about by having the police enforce minor violations like turn style jumping and crossing in the middle of the street. If one gets arrested for jumping a turn style how likely will he risk a bigger crime?

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Thank you.

This is what i said but everyone would not believe it.

The condition of the band is subjective, the insert in the picture is objective no gray area. I never mentioned the band and had no problem with it; my subjective opinion.

[CaveDiver]

beckertime,
Do you have a store front that is open to the public?
Also, in most cases Rolex Service will not provide bezels to watchmakers with parts accounts. So, not sure I understand your statement how long it takes to get the correct part from them unless Rolex is your watchmaker?
Thanks

[CaveDiver]

Just to let you know, here is a quote from Rolex USA:
“The addition of non-genuine part to any Rolex watch renders it counterfeit as defined by Federal Law. It is therefore unlawful to sell or offer such modified watch for sale.”

That means aftermarket == Fakeee

[MikeyTX]

CaveDiver, I'd guess that Matt's company is located in a secured building rather than a store front such as Dallas Diamonds in Mesquite. This how a lot of the resellers work for their own safety. If you wish to see a watch, simply call him and set up an appointment time. Bernard Watch in Austin works the same way.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Orchi - Thanks for the pics of the different bezels. You're getting the names/styles slightly wrong though. "San(s) Serif" means without serifs. So the 1st pic in your post No.26 is a Serif insert, the 2nd is sans serif and the 3rd is serif.

Again, i feel the need to reitterate the need for perspective and looking at the whole, big picture when looking at watches such as this and not getting stuck looking at, and being misled by small details that are really inconsequential. It is a 1990's watch so 10-20 years old. Lets take the median and say 15 years old.

Now, the bezel inserts are the most easily damaged, scratched, chipped, dinged, dented, faded and worn cosmetic parts on the GMT, Sub etc (hence why Rolex are now using tougher ceramic inserts). Luckily they are also the easieset, simplest and cheapest to replace. They are often replaced. This one has been. To be expected on a 15 year old watch imo. Maybe the seller thought a new insert would be welcomed by most buyers as the old was indeed scratched, faded, damged etc. Lets remember this is likely on a 15 year old watch. The rest of the watch is in great condition. Crystal, dial, bezel assembly (other than disputed insert), crown, case all in great condition for a 15 year old watch.

Now, the bracelet. It's a bad picture, you can't see it resting naturally so you can't accuraltey judge it. It's 15 years old. Remember - perspective, the bigger picture. Anyone who's owned a hollow oyster bracelet knows how easily they stretch and can get damaged. This one is far from worn out judging by the one bad picture. Now, the seller could have had it made "perfect" again. No doubt using a fair few non original links, screws, hinges etc. Nearly all the watches you see for sale with perfect looking old bracelets will have been repaired in some ways. Nearly always with non Rolex parts and you won't have any idea, they're that good. This one hasn't, it looks to be in original 15 year old good condition.

So basically people are saying that the non original bezel insert is a bad thing but the original bracelet is also a bad thing. If the seller had had the bracelet repaired/restored with non original parts (which you wouldn't have a clue about or be able to tell and which a lot of older bracelets are) would people be saying how good it looked?

Originally Posted by TheBluePrince

Good advice. The seller should have mentioned the after market insert. Btw, please can we all be specific about what the parts are. It's not the "bezel" it's just the insert in this case which is a much smaller matter entirely. Also, as shown by Orchi there are so many ever so slightly different styles of insert that 99.9% of the world would never notice that it isn't a "real" Rolex one. And when worn it doesn't make any difference to the overall appearance of the whole watch.

I really do feel though that spotting fakes and spotting small details that are changed is very different. I think people here are getting a bit to quick to condemn watches for the tinniest, slightest thing that is "fake" in their eyes without taking into account the bigger picture which is that on older watches such small additions or differences (like bezel inserts, not main important items like dials or bracelets) are common and not necessarily the end of the world or even that important. The seller pointed out how long it takes, hard it is to get the original Rolex inserts. The consequence of Rolex continuing and increasing to limit parts more and more is that little things like this are common. If i bought a GMT i'd probably buy 3 different after market inserts to switch between and save my original Rolex one from getting scratched and worn/damaged.

Prince, your arguments make no sense to me. I have a 50 year old GMT with the original bezel insert and original bracelet. I paid a premium for this rare piece. 99.9% of the world would not notice a fake bracelet, case, dial, hands, movement, etc..... that does not make it right for the 0.1% who care (I am part of that 0.1%).

[springer]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Just to let you know, here is a quote from Rolex USA:
“The addition of non-genuine part to any Rolex watch renders it counterfeit as defined by Federal Law. It is therefore unlawful to sell or offer such modified watch for sale.”

That means aftermarket == Fakeee

This is getting out of hand. Go read the Lanham Act if you haven't. I've enforced that act many times. Rolex can say anything they want, it doesn't mean it is correct or true. It is pure hyperbole to get you to buy their parts. I know federal law and there is no such law as reported by Rolex. It is pure salesmanship and hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't you send me a private message with the subsection in the Lanham Act that would make the addition of aftermarket bezel inserts in a Rolex unlawful.

Now, trademarked parts are a different story.

Personally, I think Becker has been scolded enough here. Maybe everyone should contact ebay with their concerns, since they are the final authority on his auctions. And trust me, it wouldn't be the first time they have been contacted on a Becker Time auction.

Don't buy the watch if you can't buy the seller or his integrity.

[ParisDakarBmw]

I feel that prior to making such claims of a perfect watch, the seller should provide a 3rd person appraisal concerning the authenticity, and condition. I would be rather upset if my mother purchased this for me thinking this was my dream watch, and it came looking like that. The bracelet has some issues, and not 100%, and the bezel consistant with an aftermarket. If the facts were disclosed as unknown that's one thing. The watch was offered as 100% original, and Orchi had some valid points.

[MikeyTX]

Originally Posted by springer

This is getting out of hand. Go read the Lanham Act if you haven't. I've enforced that act many times. Rolex can say anything they want, it doesn't mean it is correct or true. It is pure hyperbole to get you to buy their parts. I know federal law and there is no such law as reported by Rolex. It is pure salesmanship and hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't you send me a private message with the subsection in the Lanham Act that would make the addition of aftermarket bezel inserts in a Rolex unlawful.

Now, trademarked parts are a different story.

Personally, I think Becker has been scolded enough here. Maybe everyone should contact ebay with their concerns, since they are the final authority on his auctions. And trust me, it wouldn't be the first time they have been contacted on a Becker Time auction.

Don't buy the watch if you can't buy the seller or his integrity.

+1 The objective of this section of the forum is not character assassination. As of late though it seems that is what's happening. Matt has more than explained to all what happened with the listing. It is now time to move on and go after the true scammers. Just my .02

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by springer

This is getting out of hand. Go read the Lanham Act if you haven't. I've enforced that act many times. Rolex can say anything they want, it doesn't mean it is correct or true. It is pure hyperbole to get you to buy their parts. I know federal law and there is no such law as reported by Rolex. It is pure salesmanship and hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why don't you send me a private message with the subsection in the Lanham Act that would make the addition of aftermarket bezel inserts in a Rolex unlawful.

Now, trademarked parts are a different story.

Personally, I think Becker has been scolded enough here. Maybe everyone should contact ebay with their concerns, since they are the final authority on his auctions. And trust me, it wouldn't be the first time they have been contacted on a Becker Time auction.

Don't buy the watch if you can't buy the seller or his integrity.

John,
Don’t try to make this into something that is not. Rolex has been fined by the Department of Justice in the past for anti-completive practices so this goes both ways. That is Rolex’s stance not mine and I think it goes way deeper than forcing someone to buy their parts which is not even possible in most cases. Like I stated earlier to beckertime, Rolex in most cases will not source bezels, inserts, bracelets to watchmakers with Rolex parts accounts. So the stance they are trying to force you to buy their parts is weak. They are saying they do not want to service your watch and to go elsewhere. The statement I quoted was from a service form. And yes, Rolex has been fined for imposing a policy on watchmaker with parts accounts for making them abide by their policy not to service a watch that has non Rolex parts.
If you are an attorney in this field, please give your facts based on law.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by MikeyTX

+1 The objective of this section of the forum is not character assassination. As of late though it seems that is what's happening. Matt has more than explained to all what happened with the listing. It is now time to move on and go after the true scammers. Just my .02

I agree that this forum is not for character assassination.

Buddy Orchi posted an appropriate 'watchout' for TRF members.

[CaveDiver]

I disagree,
Just because he sells lots of watches why does that allow more leeway in describing a piece for sale? That bracelet is worn and not just the stretch. Not sure why he does not add a photo with the new bezel insert?
If this was a guy with a feedback of 100, I doubt the listing would still be there.

To the earlier statement about local inspection and pickup:
• “For security and insurance reasons we can no longer accommodate local pick-ups. Thank you for your understanding. “

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by springer

This is getting out of hand.

Rolex is getting out of hand, buy a Roles from Canada and have it shipped and it will be seized at the boarder as a copyright violation. Rolex's money talks and the payees do their bidding.

If those want not need Rolex put up with it so be it; most just get a Timex.