Harley Davidson -- Could Rolex be next?

[Rolex addict]

Antiquated bike and image. Combine that with the fact so many motorcyclists are being killed by distracted drivers (ie. texting), it's just not as fun as it used to be. Also, it's not just Harley. The road motorcycle market in general is down, but off road is seeing an uptick. Same thing with bicycles. My local bike shop owner said that road bicycle sales are down over 20% and he sells maybe 2 bikes/year that are over 2K. Nothing over 6K, but mountain bike sales are increasing. Will this trend continue?? Who knows. If texting and driving continues to increase, my guess is yes. Being a hood ornament isn't a good look.

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by mikeyatc

Harley is struggling because of millennial's... Rolex will flourish because of millennial's!

huh? im technically a millennial (born in 1984) and i dont have a single friend who wears anything more expensive than an Apple watch. i have a few friends who were gifted nice watches for college graduation but never wear them. if you exclude Apple watches, id say ~5% of my friends wear watches. these are all upper middle class people, Rolex's bread and butter. if you have no interest in mechanical watches at 35, why would you have interest at 40, 45, or 50?

[dtwer]

Harley's problem is not the millennials. Their problem is about the price to value ratio; their bikes are priced too high for the value offered.

Even with their supposedly hip, futuristic new electric bikes, Harley would most likely still continue the downward spiral. That's because they would slap some ridiculously high price tags on those bikes that virtually render them unobtainable to the young riders they are appealing to.

What Harley can serve is a cautionary tale for all businesses in that if you price your products way above the value they deliver, you will eventually drive yourself out of business in a crowded and competitive marketplace.

Rolex, in that regard, is managing with brilliant discipline IMO. They price the products extremely competitively relative to the value they deliver, to the point that people are perceiving the watches as "priced too low." As long as they stay disciplined, they will continued to do well.

[CDNWatchNut]

Originally Posted by SPEIRMOOR

Chill, Harley is going nowhere.

Maybe, maybe not...just last fall they made this announcement. If they believe that the future is in electric motorcycles is right now, I think they're waaaay ahead of their time.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...on-valley.html

[CDNWatchNut]

Originally Posted by dtwer

Harley's problem is not the millennials. Their problem is about the price to value ratio; their bikes are priced too high for the value offered.

Even with their supposedly hip, futuristic new electric bikes, Harley would most likely still continue the downward spiral. That's because they would slap some ridiculously high price tags on those bikes that virtually render them unobtainable to the young riders they are appealing to.

What Harley can serve is a cautionary tale for all businesses in that if you price your products way above the value they deliver, you will eventually drive yourself out of business in a crowded and competitive marketplace.

Rolex, in that regard, is managing with brilliant discipline IMO. They price the products extremely competitively relative to the value they deliver, to the point that people are perceiving the watches as "priced too low." As long as they stay disciplined, they will continued to do well.

According to Harley Davidson's website, the Livewire will be "starting at $37250 CDN" for an electric motorcycle with no potato potato....I don't think this will go well for H-D.

[Thug]

Instead of blaming millennials, what has Harley done to attract a younger clientele? I’m mid 20s and if you ask me to describe the average Harley person, the image I conjure up in my head is not flattering.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Thug

Instead of blaming millennials, what has Harley done to attract a younger clientele? I’m mid 20s and if you ask me to describe the average Harley person, the image I conjure up in my head is not flattering.

this is exactly how i feel. you can't just blame millennials when these same millennials are spending insane amounts of money on luxury watches/cars when they make it big (celebs, musicians, athletes, etc) lol

what does every famous pro athlete buy nowadays when they make it into the big leagues? they instantly go out and get a lambo/ferrari/whatever other supercar and a rolex or AP even if they don't care about watches which i doubt most of them do. obviously these companies are doing something right and why would you need a lambo when you can uber anyway? some companies can adapt and others can't, its just the way it is

its definitely a different time though. a lot of people in their 20s don't even care to get their driver licenses here in nyc, so motorcycles would appeal even less now than before

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by subtona

Harley is Harley.
They are a exceptional motorcycle and an excellent choice if you are in the market for other than a sport or duel sport. They excel in their area and surpass the competition.

They have one of if not the best network of dealerships in the USA (can’t speak beyond) providing comprehensive support throughout the country, very important when traveling.


Agree with the point above, the enjoyment does not seem to have taken hold of the current millennial population, in my experience riding interest comes in waves.

I would consider the economy and jobs market for young people as well, 20k for a motorcycle is a steep chunk of change if you have just got your degree and associated debt and find yourself working in Starbucks.

Let’s see what the summer brings.


Ps I read today that Harley was owned by citizen (watch)

20-30K for a motorcycle (essentially a summer toy) is indeed a steep chunk of change for a millennial. 20-30K for a Rolex (even 10K) is also a steep chunk of change for a millennial. There may be millennials here on the forum who are WIS, but in the jist of things they are a very small minority. The writing is already on the wall. I believe all Swiss watches will eventually go the way that Harley is going. Only time will tell though.

[gettocard]

Originally Posted by Thug

Instead of blaming millennials, what has Harley done to attract a younger clientele? I’m mid 20s and if you ask me to describe the average Harley person, the image I conjure up in my head is not flattering.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by CDNWatchNut

According to Harley Davidson's website, the Livewire will be "starting at $37250 CDN" for an electric motorcycle with no potato potato....I don't think this will go well for H-D.

Price is . It's a brand that grossly over-estimates the worth of its brand equity, from the corporate to the typical customers.

Looking up the used Harley's for sale on cycle trader and one would have thought those motorcycles are made of PM or something by how much $$ the sellers ask for them.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Oh yay, another, "X market isn't doing well, so X market might also be in danger." Yawn.

May I speculate as well??

Toilet paper sales are declining. Is Rolex the next brand to be flushed???

[Cru Jones]

This has zero to do with millennials.

Harleys are timeless.... the problem is that they’ve (over) priced themselves into a niche.

Get some bare-bones back-to-basics models that are priced competitively and look good, and they’ll be fine.

[artschool]

Originally Posted by dtwer

Harley's problem is not the millennials. Their problem is about the price to value ratio; their bikes are priced too high for the value offered.

google South Park Harley and you will see how most people look at Harley Davidson.


the other comparison I think is relevant is that Harley is old outmoded tech versus Ducati and co whose products still compete in Moto gp.

Rolex used to provide the best dive watches. now they are just jewellery.

[artschool]

Originally Posted by CDNWatchNut

According to Harley Davidson's website, the Livewire will be "starting at $37250 CDN" for an electric motorcycle with no potato potato....I don't think this will go well for H-D.

OMG that is just laughable. top speed 110mph. range 110miles.

and it looks ugly.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by artschool

google South Park Harley and you will see how most people look at Harley Davidson.


the other comparison I think is relevant is that Harley is old outmoded tech versus Ducati and co whose products still compete in Moto gp.

Rolex used to provide the best dive watches. now they are just jewellery.

I just watched them clips on YouTube and lol'd!

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by artschool

OMG that is just laughable. top speed 110mph. range 110miles.

and it looks ugly.

Better have a second battery handy when going on that Sunday ride in the mountains....

[davidgreams]

This was the first Rolex I have ever purchased. I was fortunate to be put in touch with an AD who wanted to help me out. From what I’ve seen/heard lately, those AD’s are hard to come by.

The watch itself is great, I really like the jubilee bracelet, even though I would’ve preferred an oyster band. The blue color on the bezel sometimes looks purple. The purple usually stands out more in pictures than it does in person. I highly recommend purchasing this watch at RETAIL. I don’t see the point of paying double; unless you really need it.

[rollyp]

Lots of great responses, thanks guys for answering. I do seem to recall a time in the early to mid 2000s when Harleys were selling for over sticker and even had waitings lists for certain hot models. Who does that remind us of?

But one thing watches have going for them is their accessibility. Anyone can put one on their wrist, whereas a motorcycle requires quite a bit more effort and commitment.

I do agree with the poster that many watch brands will disappear in the next decade or two -- Rolex, Patek, AP, and a few others being the exceptions.

[Widows Son]

Beating up on Harley's technology is laughable. There is no comparison between the technology on my first Harley (77 XLCR) and my two latest, a 2004 Heritage and a 2008 Ultra Classic. Today's Harleys are belt driven , fuel injected, and many have ABS. Neither of mine leak a drop of oil, and the only maintenance required is similar to newer cars, oil changes and tires. Both are in the garage on battery tenders, this Spring all I'll have to do is put air in the tires (maybe) turn the key and away I go.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

20-30K for a motorcycle (essentially a summer toy) is indeed a steep chunk of change for a millennial. 20-30K for a Rolex (even 10K) is also a steep chunk of change for a millennial. There may be millennials here on the forum who are WIS, but in the jist of things they are a very small minority. The writing is already on the wall. I believe all Swiss watches will eventually go the way that Harley is going. Only time will tell though.

I hope they stick around, though I don’t keep a bike of my own anymore I do have an annual trip where I fly out to the Rockies and rent a Harley for a few days.

Who knows what tomorrow holds?

[GB-man]

I can’t speak for others my age but I would never ride a motorcycle with all the people texting and driving. Off-road is a different story though.

The one thing Harley has in common with Rolex is that while iconic, owners must often carry the stigma of the plethora of d bags who flock to the brand. Not much can be done about that though. Success breeds mainstream interest and that often shapes the public’s opinion of the brand over time.